Superior Firepower is not buffing Artillery

[Simon_9732495]

Before you instantly smash the disagree button: I'm talking about the first Tech in the superior firepower land doctrine. Called: "Superior Firepower"

This one:

It took me 1200 hours of gameplay to realize that the +20% soft attack buff (that has been reduced to 10% lately) does not apply to Artillery.
"Because Artillery is not a "Frontline Battalion" of course!" you say...

Yep, now I understand, but before I always just read over it and thought:
"Whatever a "Frontline Battalion" is, I don't care..."
and
"Wohoo more Soft Attack for my 14/4s!"


Disclaimer:
I know that the doctrine has other soft attack buffs for artillery.
No, I dont want to say, that the doctrine is not good.
Just posting this, because maaaayyybe some else has also not realized this and it helps a bit.

 

[Harin]

When I look at that clip, it would sure seem to indicate that the line artillery would get the buff. I mean the buff includes "Suppressive Barrage" which we all know is an artillery function.

 

[Simon_9732495]

Say you do a 14/4 with 1939 Arty:

Spoiler: Template

240 Soft Attack. Nice.

Ok now let's get the +10% soft attack from Superior Firepower:

Spoiler: Template

249 Soft Attack. +3,75%. Wat?



Fun fact I just discovered:
Engineer Support Company Soft Attacked is buffed from 3 to 3.6 (makes it 20%).

A Engineer Support Company seems to be a "Frontline Battalion" and still be buffed with the 20% of the old superior firepower...

 

[sekelsenmat]

For historical realism it should be the other way around. American artillery was superior, but American infantry and tanks weren't. Maybe also apply it to marines/paratroopers. The is a line art buff further down, but the other path is the meta, right?

 

[Harin]

Say you do a 14/4 with 1939 Arty:

Spoiler: Template

View attachment 579093

240 Soft Attack. Nice.

Ok now let's get the +10% soft attack from Superior Firepower:

Spoiler: Template

View attachment 579094

249 Soft Attack. +3,75%. Wat?



Fun fact I just discovered:
Engineer Support Company Soft Attacked is buffed from 3 to 3.6 (makes it 20%).

A Engineer Support Company seems to be a "Frontline Battalion" and still be buffed with the 20% of the old superior firepower...

Good catch!

 

[elektrizikekswerk]

Say you do a 14/4 with 1939 Arty:

Spoiler: Template

View attachment 579093

240 Soft Attack. Nice.

Ok now let's get the +10% soft attack from Superior Firepower:

Spoiler: Template

View attachment 579094

249 Soft Attack. +3,75%. Wat?



Fun fact I just discovered:
Engineer Support Company Soft Attacked is buffed from 3 to 3.6 (makes it 20%).

A Engineer Support Company seems to be a "Frontline Battalion" and still be buffed with the 20% of the old superior firepower...

That's indeed funny. What does the tooltip say? Behind that "helmet" symbol there is afaik a tooltip listing all affected troops.

 

[Mister Analyst]

Some may find these Superior Firepower tooltips interesting:

All Frontline Battalions tooltip. Note that Artillery Battalion and Artillery Support Company are not in this list.

Suppressive Barrage (Attacker) Tactic tooltip. Note that successful tactic damage is increased. Therefore, Artillery Battalions and Artillery Support Companies get a damage buff when the tactic is successful. Even a pure Infantry Division would get this "artillery" buff due to the small caliber mortars and howitzers allegedly included in the Infantry Equipment I description "crew served weapons for infantry".

 

[SophieX]

Note that Artillery Battalion and Artillery Support Company are not in this list

Very helpful, thanks. So we have to take the term "Frontline" literally ( AA isn't listed too ). And this makes sense; ART and AA were no frontline-units in reality, apart from a few exceptions.

 

[Mister Analyst]

Compare a pure 14 INF Battalion Division (1918 infantry equipment) without the 1st doctrine Superior Firepower to a pure 14 INF Battalion Division (1918 infantry equipment) with the 1st Superior Firepower doctrine researched. The Soft Attack is increased by exactly 10% which would imply that the 1918 infantry equipment has small caliber mortars and howitzers.

14 INF Battalion Division

14 INF Battalion Division with Superior Firepower doctrine researched

 

[Mister Analyst]

Now compare a 14 INF 4 ART Battalion (1918 infantry equipment and 1934 artillery) without the 1st doctrine Superior Firepower to a 14 INF 4 ART Battalion (1918 infantry equipment and 1934 artillery) with the 1st Superior Firepower doctrine researched. The Soft Attack is increased by 4.2 which happens to be 10% of the 14 infantry battalions' Soft Attack as shown in my previous post. EDIT: Note that artillery Soft Attack did not add anything to the total increase in Soft Attack.

14 INF 4 ART Battalion

14 INF 4 ART Battalion with Superior Firepower doctrine researched

 

[SophieX]

q.e.d.

 

[Mister Analyst]

Fun fact I just discovered:
Engineer Support Company Soft Attacked is buffed from 3 to 3.6 (makes it 20%).

A Engineer Support Company seems to be a "Frontline Battalion" and still be buffed with the 20% of the old superior firepower...

@Simon_9732495 ,

I have not yet confirmed your finding that the Engineer Support Company seems to be a "Frontline Battalion" and still be buffed with the 20% of the old superior firepower...

• It could be a rounding error
• It could be as you claim that the old 20% buff did not get changed to 10% for the Engineer Support Company
• More testing is needed to confirm

Compare a pure 14 INF 1 ENG Division (1918 infantry equipment) without the 1st doctrine Superior Firepower to a pure 14 INF 1 ENG Division (1918 infantry equipment) with the 1st Superior Firepower doctrine researched. The Soft Attack is increased from 43.5 to 48.0.

• Without Superior Firepower
  • Soft Attack from 14 INF = 42.0
  • Soft Attack from 1 ENG = 1.5
  • Division total Soft Attack = 42.0 + 1.5 = 43.5
• With Superior Firepower (10% buff to Soft Attack)
  • Soft Attack from 14 INF = 42.0 + (42.0 x 10%) = 42.0 + 4.2 = 46.2
  • Soft Attack from 1 ENG = 1.5 + (1.5 x 10%) = 1.5 + 0.15 = 1.65
  • Division total Soft Attack = 46.2 + 1.65 = 47.85 which does not equal the 48.0 shown in the last screenshot below
    • However, 47.85 rounds up to 48.0
    • However, 20% buff to ENG Soft Attack = 1.5 + (1.5 x 20%) = 1.5 + 0.30 = 1.80 which would make the division total Soft Attack exactly equal the 48.0 shown in the last screenshot below

14 INF 1 ENG Division

14 INF 1 ENG Division with Superior Firepower doctrine researched

 

[Harin]

Leave it to @Mister Analyst to make things clear.

 

[The_Blind_One]

@Simon_9732495 ,

I have not yet confirmed your finding that the Engineer Support Company seems to be a "Frontline Battalion" and still be buffed with the 20% of the old superior firepower...

There is nothing in data files that indicate a mistake either.

See the relevant code:

    superior_firepower = {
        doctrine_name = "SUPERIOR_FIREPOWER_DOCTRINE"
       
        xp_research_type = army
        xp_research_cost = 100
        xp_research_bonus = 1.00
       
        xor = { mobile_warfare trench_warfare mass_assault }

        path = {
            leads_to_tech = sup_delay
            research_cost_coeff = 1
        }
       
        category_front_line = {
             soft_attack = 0.1
        }
       
        enable_tactic = tactic_barrage
           
        doctrine = yes  
        research_cost = 2.25
       
        categories = {
            land_doctrine
            cat_superior_firepower
        }

       
        folder = {
            name = land_doctrine_folder
            position = { x = 0 y = 0 }
        }
       
        ai_will_do = {
            factor = 20
            modifier = {
                not = {
                    has_army_experience > 120
                }
                factor = 0.8
            }
        }
       
        ai_research_weights = {
            artillery = 4.0
        }
    }

It just seems like a straight +10% buff to units that fit the frontline category.

I think you are right on the mark and the game simply rounds up to the nearest whole number.

[EDIT] I'm wrong, read Zwirbaum's response down below for the correct answer.

 

[SophieX]

.....
I think you are right on the mark and the game simply rounds up to the nearest whole number.

But 14/0 + ENG without doctrine shows 42.5 ( not rounded to nearest whole number )

Perhaps a new try with a second "frontline-support" like armored-car recon to clarify ?

 

[Cavalry]

Fun fact I just discovered:
Engineer Support Company Soft Attacked is buffed from 3 to 3.6 (makes it 20%).

A Engineer Support Company seems to be a "Frontline Battalion" and still be buffed with the 20% of the old superior firepower...

It looks like the doctrine buffes small guns and armors and not artillery. Engineer get soft attack from 10 small gun.

 

[Zwirbaum]

Long Story short:

All units take their base stats from the equipment they use.

Engineers use Infantry Equipment and Support Equipment. Support Equipment doesn't have any direct combat stats like Soft Attack, so in this case combat stats of Engineers are dictated by the Inf Eq.

So using Inf Eq I - Engineers would have 6 Soft Attack, however as you noticed they have 3 Soft Attack in-game.

Engineers have in their unit definition Soft Attack = -0.5 meaning they have 50% lower Soft Attack from what they normally would get from their equipment.

And now you ask why they have 3.6 instead of 3.3 Soft Attack?

Reason is simple - all those modifiers are based on the base stats and are additive to each another instead of being multiplicative. In case of Engineers it is:

100% -50% +10% = 60% Soft Attack

0.6 * 6 = 3.6 Soft Attack.

 

[Simon_9732495]

Behind that "helmet" symbol there is afaik a tooltip listing all affected troops.

Some may find these Superior Firepower tooltips interesting:

I once noticed the frontline battalions list, when checking who gets the +5 Org from "Airland Battle". But forgot it again, and wasn't aware that the +10% soft attack was not for all divisions but for frontlines battalions only and when I read it again I read over it.

Question to the "professionals" here that have thousands of hours in the game:
Were you aware that the first Tech of superior firepower is not buffing artillery?

Engineers have in their unit definition Soft Attack = -0.5 meaning they have 50% lower Soft Attack from what they normally would get from their equipment.

Ahhh, thats helpful! So that's what the -0.5 Soft Attack means.

That is exactly what I was seeing.
Inf has 6 before, goes to 6.6.
Eng has 3 before, goes to 3.6.

 

[elektrizikekswerk]

Were you aware that the first Tech of superior firepower is not buffing artillery?

Let me say it this way: You are not the first who had discovered that small issue

/edit: That being said, like you I assumed artillery would be included because everything in that techs screams "ARTILLERY!!!!111eleven". Someone then made a thread in this forum and I was like *mind: blown*.
Lucky for me I only had about 200h or so at that point so I knew it rather "early".

 

[Rashie]

Question to the "professionals" here that have thousands of hours in the game:
Were you aware that the first Tech of superior firepower is not buffing artillery?

This quirk of SF has been known about for years. It's all WAD, even though one could argue that line artillery should be more incentivised in non 40 width infantry than it is.