Sunday morning MP game

[Solmyr]

I can do the hosting, unless there are other options available

Well, I can do the hosting too. What's your connection and speed?

 

[Sterkarm]

I like it. It adds more flavor, and it also gives people a reason to WANT to be Papal Controller. I think that it should only apply to PC realms, and AI realms should be free to do as they wish willy-nilly.

And while we're on the subject of excommunication, we should probably formalize what we agreed to since there was some dispute last session. As I recall, what we agreed to essentially boiled down to two rules:

1) A player needs to be able to justify with a legitimate Role-Playing reason a decision to excommunicate a ruler unless that person has a piety less than -10.

2) You cannot excommunicate a courtier in a given court unless you are also able to excommunicate the ruler of said court.

There was some quibbling about other rules, but I believe those are the two we formalized. It allows a regent with decent piety to protect their children while they are in their court, but still gives enemy players a chance at heirs (ie- when they get their own lands.) If a player wants to protect a given person from excommunication while a given player is papal controller, they will incur a minor prestige penalty if the person is male. I think that is approrpriate given it IS a king cowering to some extent before the power of the Church.

Well, #2 essentially doesn't allow the PC to do anything. Do you know how hard it is to excomm a ruler in 1.03? Especially a King. I couldn't even excomm a count with -187 piety last session (it was AI). Basically, the papal controller, in any game, is now worthless.

 

[Swuul]

Well, I can do the hosting too. What's your connection and speed?

512 ADSL. My computer is no super-computer, but it is stable. If you have a better or as good conenction, then by all means do host

 

[unmerged(27106)]

Well, #2 essentially doesn't allow the PC to do anything. Do you know how hard it is to excomm a ruler in 1.03? Especially a King. I couldn't even excomm a count with -187 piety last session (it was AI). Basically, the papal controller, in any game, is now worthless.

We have that clause there specifically to protect underage heirs from excommunication, a clause you asked for when Byakhiam was papal controller and there was extensive conflict between Burgundy and Naples.

Papal Controller is a subtle weapon, but it is also potent. Under these rules, you are allowed to go around excommunicating any ruler with negative piety just because you feel like it (and there are quite a few of those.) I have said several times that I wouldn't mind being papal controller- I can see the uses one can put it to.

 

[Sterkarm]

We have that clause there specifically to protect underage heirs from excommunication, a clause you asked for when Byakhiam was papal controller and there was extensive conflict between Burgundy and Naples.

Papal Controller is a subtle weapon, but it is also potent. Under these rules, you are allowed to go around excommunicating any ruler with negative piety just because you feel like it (and there are quite a few of those.) I have said several times that I wouldn't mind being papal controller- I can see the uses one can put it to.

But, as I said, even if he has somewhere close to -300 piety, I won't be able to excomm as long as he's a king.

 

[Swuul]

But, as I said, even if he has somewhere close to -300 piety, I won't be able to excomm as long as he's a king.

Being or not being a King has nothing to do with it, except that they get a "bonus" to their piety. So even if a King has negative piety it will cost about 350 prestige to excommunicate a King.

Just give the Pope one or a few new Duchies until his prestige is enough

 

[Sterkarm]

Being or not being a King has nothing to do with it, except that they get a "bonus" to their piety. So even if a King has negative piety it will cost about 350 prestige to excommunicate a King.

Just give the Pope one or a few new Duchies until his prestige is enough

That's my point exactly, they get a huge bonus to their piety, effective only for excommunication purposes, meaning it's nearly impossible to excomm a king...

 

[Solmyr]

Just thought I'd point out that in my proposed rules for inbreeding, you should be allowed to excommunicate whoever did it even if you can't excom the ruler. So essentially that would be an exception to the excom rule.

 

[Solmyr]

512 ADSL. My computer is no super-computer, but it is stable. If you have a better or as good conenction, then by all means do host

I have the same, 512 ADSL (well, actually 1M/512K). I guess I can host then. I'll post the ip number later, as it seems to have changed from the previous one.

 

[unmerged(27106)]

That's my point exactly, they get a huge bonus to their piety, effective only for excommunication purposes, meaning it's nearly impossible to excomm a king...

I don't see this as a problem, personally.

 

[unmerged(27106)]

Just thought I'd point out that in my proposed rules for inbreeding, you should be allowed to excommunicate whoever did it even if you can't excom the ruler. So essentially that would be an exception to the excom rule.

That's how I read it.

I'm assuming we'll implement this rule, since nobody's objected. We can discuss it tonight and come to a final decision, though.

 

[Solmyr]

My ip for tonight is 80.186.42.223

 

[Sterkarm]

I don't see this as a problem, personally.

Probably because you'll never become Papal Controller... it makes it so that I cannot excommunicate ANYONE in a player's court.

BTW, Solmyr, you can host in Vnet now, host in Crusaders channel.

 

[Hyzhenhok]

Probably because you'll never become Papal Controller... it makes it so that I cannot excommunicate ANYONE in a player's court.

You missed the 'legitimate roleplaying reason' clause. If your king is poor or selfish, taking bribes to have people excommunicating is a perfectly legitimate RP reason. Putting your own kid closer to the top in a succession line is a perfectly legitimate roleplaying reason. Finding an excuse and excommunicating other people's families because you are angry things haven't gone your way and need to vent your frustration is not a legitimate reason.

 

[Sterkarm]

You missed the 'legitimate roleplaying reason' clause. If your king is poor or selfish, taking bribes to have people excommunicating is a perfectly legitimate RP reason. Putting your own kid closer to the top in a succession line is a perfectly legitimate roleplaying reason. Finding an excuse and excommunicating other people's families because you are angry things haven't gone your way and need to vent your frustration is not a legitimate reason.

Yes, but even if I have an RP reason, I can't excomm anyone who's liege can't be excommed.

 

[Swuul]

Almost 100 years played now in total. According to many forumites the games should have been unplayable for decades now :rofl: The truth is that the game is as stable as ever, today a five hour session and only one rehost because of crash.

de Normandies did ok in England. Duke of Cornwall is the only major part remaining outside the English realm now, and I succeeded to arrange my heir to be the Duke of Cornwall Kicked some Irish butt (six battles result with a 6-0 to England), that wasn't too hard even though they in theory had a bigger manpower.

 

[Solmyr]

Get the latest save game here:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/solmyr/CK/Thrones.zip

Only change I did was F12-die the undead bishop of Lorraine and run for 1 day to get a replacement bishop appointed. Upon reload though, the Duke of Masovia became Papal controller, and Poland's capital moved to Cieszyn again.

 

[Sterkarm]

Almost 100 years played now in total. According to many forumites the games should have been unplayable for decades now :rofl: The truth is that the game is as stable as ever, today a five hour session and only one rehost because of crash.

de Normandies did ok in England. Duke of Cornwall is the only major part remaining outside the English realm now, and I succeeded to arrange my heir to be the Duke of Cornwall Kicked some Irish butt (six battles result with a 6-0 to England), that wasn't too hard even though they in theory had a bigger manpower.

Well, considering the fact that I held off my 24k man army because its leader had a martial of 1, I think you can see why you won. Also, I had to bring that 24k all the way from Iberia. Had Archibald not died, England would be mine.

Btw, Solmyr, could you check that all my vassals are still mine, including Count of Bordeaux, and could you also check that I am at war with almost the entire muslim world except the Fatimids and Seljuks?

 

[Solmyr]

Btw, Solmyr, could you check that all my vassals are still mine, including Count of Bordeaux, and could you also check that I am at war with almost the entire muslim world except the Fatimids and Seljuks?

Can't you dl the save and check yourself if everything is alright?
However, it seems that different people saw different things in our last session, so something might not actually be the way you think it should be...

 

[Solmyr]

Are we playing this one this weekend still?