Sunday Game: The History Channel

[BurningEGO]

Sheesh Nagel. The point is, if he made a copy/paste of my rules, he should follow them. If you noticed, there is a part that says "If someone made a grotesque insult, the GM will force the player to apology". And now Sid just called Troy a prick.

I dont have anything against Sid or anyone copy/pasting my rules. But if they do so, at least, follow them to the letter.

Now, Now, about China. If this a MP game, why leave China alone in Asia? If he wants to play alone and be isolated from the rest of the game, then let him play some SP. It doesnt make sense to see people isolated from everyone. And in last game, having Sid in China showed how unbalancing it can be. He kept funeling some nations, unbalacing the game in europe.

 

[unmerged(32886)]

Sheesh Nagel. The point is, if he made a copy/paste of my rules, he should follow them. If you noticed, there is a part that says "If someone made a grotesque insult, the GM will force the player to apology". And now Sid just called Troy a prick.
I dont have anything against Sid or anyone copy/pasting my rules. But if they do so, at least, follow them to the letter.

Sid, plz force yourself to apologize for that grotesque insult. And next time keep it more civilized, using words like baby, whiner, #$%hole, *%#%head, you know. Prick is soooooo passé . Just kidding.

Now, Now, about China. If this a MP game, why leave China alone in Asia? If he wants to play alone and be isolated from the rest of the game, then let him play some SP. It doesnt make sense to see people isolated from everyone. And in last game, having Sid in China showed how unbalancing it can be. He kept funeling some nations, unbalacing the game in europe.

Like I said, that tactic is actually quite good for China. Trying to keep those nasty uncivilized Europeans away as long as possible while expanding like crazy. And that money if used wisely, can keep nations in Europe from becomming huge monsters. Now that's unbalancing. So, all hail China .

 

[BurningEGO]

Please, dont repeat posts. Thanks.

And my point about China is, why does he play Multiplayer mode if he doesnt have any interaction with human nations? Arent we here to loose/win wars over human players, and to achieve supremacy, or do our best for such a thing?

 

[unmerged(32886)]

Please, dont repeat posts. Thanks.

Due to some foreseen action, my connection is somewhat slow. This means that when I make a post and then click on the sop button to edit something, you get a double post. Happened in the other thread also.
So, please don't judge someone before you know more about the situation. Thanks.

And my point about China is, why does he play Multiplayer mode if he doesnt have any interaction with human nations? Arent we here to loose/win wars over human players, and to achieve supremacy, or do our best for such a thing?

To achieve supremacy one does not need to be in wars. If you can get others to fight your wars, then you're the top dog. Speaking for myself, I play purely for the fun. Nothing more nothing less. Just want my nation (and others) to thrive. I'm not interested in world supremacy (that's probably why I'll never be an ace player ) and do not gang a nation. One must never allow a nation to get that big and if ppl do, then it's their mistake. Same goes for attacking much weaker nations (like Spain versus Byz). Not my style and totally useless since you don't need that territory. But like I said. I play for fun. To me its a game and not about becoming the best of the best. Thanks.

 

[unmerged(58575)]

To achieve supremacy one does not need to be in wars. If you can get others to fight your wars, then you're the top dog. Speaking for myself, I play purely for the fun. Nothing more nothing less. Just want my nation (and others) to thrive. I'm not interested in world supremacy (that's probably why I'll never be an ace player ) and do not gang a nation. One must never allow a nation to get that big and if ppl do, then it's their mistake. Same goes for attacking much weaker nations (like Spain versus Byz). Not my style and totally useless since you don't need that territory. But like I said. I play for fun. To me its a game and not about becoming the best of the best. Thanks.

This is my opinion too, if he wants to play China and use his money to disrupt the european colonisation I think will be a great asset and make the game more unpredictable...
And I think everybody shall go into the game with the feeling that you will just have fun not terrorize another...

 

[Sander_NL]

Hey there, do you still need some players or subs in here? I saw in the sub/perm list you need a sub for Venice?

 

[Sid Meier]

would love to have you sander.

Also I suspect its the Battleschool syndrome everyone has/had a certain style fo play for some time and oncew soemthing new and unexpected comes aka China along they get scared of me rocking the boat. I can say quite opnely th the ONLY reason that war inChampions alsted so long was that I kept funneling France and Venice so they kept fighting each other. the occasional loan to sweden or Pland didnt hurt either. I wa spissed when bunka peaced it meant France was srtonger and we lost akey layer when venice quit because of it.

 

[unmerged(58575)]

Good game tonight

But Sweden do you really think I will let go of wismar... :rofl: I'm not even wounded

[edit] If you will remove my vassalisations with platinat and Bavaria and take away nürnberg I demand a compensation like revassalise Saxony and annex Hannover or something like that

 

[unmerged(30040)]

Not so bad there. What's the save file editing going to look like?

 

[Sid Meier]

Ok might take a while and I ahve to goto work really soon so if worse comes to worse theyll be up in 4-5 hours when i come back sooner if Armour or Ego does them isntead.

 

[Sid Meier]

states: here http://www.europa2.ru/cgi-bin/leagu...kyrie.net IX&game=XIII&yearsave=1438&lang=eng

 

[unmerged(14258)]

Also I suspect its the Battleschool syndrome everyone has/had a certain style fo play for some time and oncew soemthing new and unexpected comes aka China along they get scared of me rocking the boat.

Thats not really nice. Why cant you just accept that some of us dont want to play with same setup as you want to play with? And personally I think the reason war lasted as long as it lasted in champions was, because all the English cheating.

 

[unmerged(38063)]

Me and Shy kid have a deal, he cedes his provines of Ingria, Kexholm, Kola and the one in between of Kola and Kexholm .

Also, if it is possible, edit culture of Kola to maltese (freakin Novgorod colonized that too soon ).

About my "punishment", well, I read the rules before session and I thought there was no rule about AI vassalization. Here is what I found after the session
"* If you are forced into a vassalization via war or event, you must remain so for 15 years. You can break it sooner if your liege agrees. Or if you got an event allowing you to do so."
So if I'm forced via WAR or EVENT. Gamestart isn't WAR or EVENT.

Also, Bunka, well, you can't defeat me. I can defend the seas and you don't have any navy. Your allies will probably peace with me when I gain WS so you will be left alone. I don't know if you want to continue fighting, if so I'm prepared to wage war. And after examining the stats, I see I have higher morale, more income and generally more power. If you want to fight on just say so. Sweden is prepared to take every step necessary to make itself dominant on the Baltic sea.

 

[BurningEGO]

Just tell me Saber... Did you ask to be a vassal of denmark? No, so i take it as a forced vassalization.

Now, since they were free for nearly 20 years, i suggest they are re-vassalized for a period of 20 years, and not allowed to break it till that period ends. And you are having benefits already, because you earned more cash then these years you were vassalized.

 

[unmerged(38063)]

It says in the rules, forced into vassalization via war or event. Not forced any other way so you can't punish me for breaking a rule that doesn't exist. If it's a mistake, change the rule but you can't punish me for your mistake (I did what said in the rules). I repeat, I didn't break the rule.

And btw, when did you become a GM of History Channel?

About me being vassalized for 20 years, well it's not fair since I am surely increasing my income in next 20 years so I will lose more money than I gained. Also if I am forced to be vassal for 20 years I will not be able to gain provinces from Denmark which I plan to do. That punishment is just not fair, not to me and not to Russia (which could end up vassalized by GH for 20 years that way crippleing her expand to the East that way enabling asian nations (your nation) to expand)

I hope GM will be reasonable, and not push nonexistant rule (btw, I talked to sid and he said he will probably let it go because it was not in the rules)

 

[BurningEGO]

Well... First of, i am not the GM, sure thing. Sid is in China, and cant see Europe, thus dont know a goddamn thing about what is hapening. Second, the rules were made by me, so there is no one that know more about them then i. Thirdly and not last, acusing me of wanting muscowy re-vassalized by Golden Horde because it would hurt them and allow me to expand in Asia is pure bullshit. In every sense of the word. Next time think twice before doing such a thing. Rule breakers cant break rules to their pleasure and go unpunished.

Now if they go unpunished, i fear i will be forced to leave the game. Sid GMing in China, without maps of Europe and without any interaction with humans, doesnt make things easier. Next time sid, i would suggest you to make someone else a GM as well. It is not that you arent capable of GMing, it is that without seeing how things are in europe, you dont know who is breaking what.

Lastly, people also asked if the province rule (which sid didnt copy) was aplied to the AI. There was nothing that it says in there that it doesnt. But they still asked in game. You should have made the same.

 

[ArmOrAttAk]

That rule is to protect human players no AI. I don't see anything wrong with Sweden, or Moscow breaking their vassalizations.
What I don't like is agreeing to play 1453 scenario then getting railroaded by one or two players to the 1419. I also think it's a bit shady to take it upon yourself to edit the scenario and not tell anybody until asked minutes before the game starts. The Timuruds have way too much non-core territory to have ZERO bb imo. Plus Timuruds already have a colony and they're still insisting to shackle Muscovy?
I have 5 non-core territories (all same religion though) and like 18 bb. France I'm sure is similar.
Still, I'm just happy to play an MP game because they're so hard to find. I had a good time.

 

[unmerged(53580)]

The rule says vassalised by war or event. So, as ego pointed out, you can break a vassalage that was there from game start without breaking it. Also, both Muscowy and Sweden had historically been "vassals" for more than 15 years anyway.

 

[BurningEGO]

The rule says this

You can break it sooner if your liege agrees. Or if you got an event allowing you to do so.

IMO, this alone is enough. It says whenever you can break it, or not.

About edits, well, i did all edits Sid asked me to, and wanted to do more, but didnt have time to, because he allowed me to edit the game only at 6:00 of the morning (GMT). I was doing other stuff when he told me about this, and when i finished this "stuff" i went to sleep. I just woke up later on, and had other things to do. In reality i just started editing the game 2 hours before game started.

Timurids start with 10% inflation and with 30 BB points. I just wanted to be in check with everyone of you, with these things reduced. Sid agreed. I also granted Timurids Uzbekh and Baluchi country cultures, as in Bocaj. Timurids were earning 13 MI, less then 10 census taxes and less then 200 YI with such a "big empire" (and with all these edits btw). These stricken poor 1 or 2 BT sheep provinces arent worth a crap. Plus they are shiite. If i had such a big BB and inflation that would make things even more unplayable.

About your country, well. You got the BB thanks to the wars you fought. We all started with the same inflation/BB points. If you go on an anexation frenzy it isnt my fault. Do not blame me for it please.

I also did other minor stuff, like making mameluks sunni, Japan Confucian and BBurg leader of their alliance. But didnt have time for everything else.

Lastly, i do not care what country these players are playing as. They broke the rules and cannot go unpunished like i said. They could be playing the Azteks or the Xhosa, if they broke any rule, i would like them to be punished. Do not say that i want to see them punished because they are my main threats.

 

[unmerged(32886)]

I have to agree with Saber and Bodvar on this one. They did not break any rule when they broke their vassalage. So IMO no punishment should be given. And thus you have no reason to leave the game Ego .

To balance the situation somewhat more, I suggest some rule modifications are in order. The number of vassals a nation may have should be capped at three and there should also be a prov taking rule. Another suggestion is to appoint 2 co-GM's besides Sid and even considering a restart (or some heavy edits instead to several countries).

But the session itself was, even though somewhat rocky, a lot of fun.