Suicidal AI in 1.8

[Tzeentch_]

Now I never really played singleplayer in EU4 much before 1.8, I think I did one game as Tuscany>Italy in the week EU4 released and then my other ~800 hours have been solely in multiplayer (shout out to Johan). Even so, I have never known the AI to be so suicidal prior 1.8, it makes even less sense with the new AI focus and objective thingy. I ignored it the first few times but it's getting pretty rage inducing now.

Here is my ally Tunis charging head on into 40k Spaniards that are 2 mil techs higher than he is, have a better general and are defending in mountains. But we have God on our side.

I literally couldn't even press print screen fast enough before he was wiped. I assume the Christian God won that round.

After seeing the valiant effort displayed by Tunis, my vassal Mamluks decides to try his luck, this time with 9k troops because fuck logic. For the record AI vassals were set to "stay the fuck back mode" aka "No real difference than aggressive mode"

It's unfortunate life under the Najd Caliphate is so terrible my allies and vassals would rather charge head on into a heavily defended Spanish army than wait for backup. Well that'll be 2016000 less virgins in paradise now, because there was no other way to explain that other than martyrdom.

Step it up Wiz.

 

[Mamluke]

pls post a save before the AI suicide it self. I think this is what wiz needs to find the problem.

and remember, if you find something like this again share it with the community! so we can all have a good laugh (at your expense! haha. just kidding ;D)
o and don't forget the save game. (you can use media-fire for exem.

 

[Mztr44]

I've noticed the AI being a bit more aggressive (or suicidal) as well. Not quite to that degree where they are obviously outmanned and outgunned, but i've seen them go on an attack that they may or may not win, like sending 12 troops into a stack of 15. It's usually pretty defensive when it knows it can't win. I haven't been able to determine what exactly it's goal or reasoning for the potential suicide squads is yet though. I wonder if it's trying to take FOW into account and something is causing a bug where it has already sent troops to a destination and can't see troops in it's path at the time, then something doesn't update when it gets in proximity where it should see troops in it's way and they appear to just charge in.

 

[A Swell Guy]

I've mostly observed this odd behavior in wars with the show superiority wargoal, which makes me think its an issue with how AI prioritizes the wargoal.

 

[Tzeentch_]

It was a reconquest CB, I don't really think it matters.

The Mamluks, who I betrayed most cowardly a few years back, are now my vassal. I don't think they really ever got over the whole betrayal and forced vassalisation thing, and I believe this was their final act of defiance by denying me their troops (I was currently integrating them) and giving the enemy that 1% extra WS.

If so, 10/10 AI.

Can Wiz confirm or deny that AI are now fully sentient and can express emotions such as hate and revenge?

 

[Kalarhan]

Can Wiz confirm or deny that AI are now fully sentient and can express emotions such as hate and revenge?

No comments.

(all hail our AI overlords)

 

[Mamluke]

It was a reconquest CB, I don't really think it matters.

The Mamluks, who I betrayed most cowardly a few years back, are now my vassal. I don't think they really ever got over the whole betrayal and forced vassalisation thing, and I believe this was their final act of defiance by denying me their troops (I was currently integrating them) and giving the enemy that 1% extra WS.

If so, 10/10 AI.

Can Wiz confirm or deny that AI are now fully sentient and can express emotions such as hate and revenge?

will that would be funny. I doubt its the reason LOL.

you have no save games I presume?

 

[Tzeentch_]

It was Ironman and I'm about 100 years past that point now. I doubt it'd be something Paradox would need a save for anyway as it seems fairly simply to replicate, just have a vassal and bingo.

 

[MadDjinn]

I have seen similar behaviour.

Quite likely the ai is checking to see how many units are heading to the target and how many are close by. And then not checking for when those units will be there.

I've also seen the opposite where ai stacks hang out near sieging armies and try to defend them if I got too close. Even though I was outnumbered 4:1 they just wouldn't try to corner my stack so I could keep trimming small armies as they were vulnerable.

 

[YssupG0D]

i read the first post and this thread really is a waste of time. AI IS LIMITED EVEN I ACCEPT THAT U DIPS

 

[Umbosch]

I understand and hate this too. Sometime vasall and alliances suicid with low again big stacks. Sometime they don't leave her homeland. Sometime they conquer a enemy province, go back at home and wait for end of war. Sometime they waiting in her homeland and come first when you attack at the front other stacks. Little to late. Sometime when you siege a province they come with a big stack and don't move away. Most time marking province targets was ignored. Sometimes they stop all 2 second her move and set a new target.

 

[ahyangyi]

i read the first post and this thread really is a waste of time. AI IS LIMITED EVEN I ACCEPT THAT U DIPS

Limited is different from suicidal...

A limited AI is explained by simple formulas. Like whether the AI will accept a peace offer will be solely decided by the set of bonuses and maluses.
A suicidal AI is not explained by formulas, since no correct formula will allow a 19 stack charge into a 43 one. It's suggestive of a bug in the formulas.

 

[Back2c]

The largest problem so far I've seen is that your AI vassal will attack a larger stack if there are enough allies nearby to outnumber that stack.

Meaning that if you have a great stack close enough and don't plan on attacking your foes (whatever the reason), they attack all the same at 1 to 4. Or they lose tons of men because other vassals would reinforce one after the other.

Do you remember if they were large allied armies nearby which wouldn't show on your SC ?

 

[Osmos123]

That Spanish stack looks pretty scary, specially with the 18k infantry and 18k artillery and in mountains would make it really hard to destroy.

 

[SchwarzerKaiser]

I've had the same thing happening with my Switzerland vassal, who blindly charged into a French stack and only barely survived due to my reinforcements (it had one regiment with like 400 men afterwards) and Ireland charging into a Spanish stack with an almost equally big stack but no leader (the Spanish one had a 2* leader). I don't know why that happens, but it's not so common.

 

[Tacticus101]

It was Ironman and I'm about 100 years past that point now. I doubt it'd be something Paradox would need a save for anyway as it seems fairly simply to replicate, just have a vassal and bingo.

I haven't seen my vassals doing that, ever. Evidently it isn't a general AI problem, it is a semi-bug that happens in certain situations. That is why you need a save, so Wiz can tell what actually caused it.

 

[grumphie]

don't forget that if you tell them to attach to set armies to be attachable to. if they can't, they won;t stick around.

 

[lordelenath]

To be honest I've seen some very bad AI behavior in general in 1.8, to the point where I've stopped to play nations that are very dependent on allies early on. In my recent Knights -> Jerusalem game I had Venice lose their entire fleet to the Mamelukes because they refused to merge them at all. They were originally outnumbering the Mamelukes 2,x:1 in galley and 3:1 in ships I think. After that the Mamelukes started their suicidal attack on Rhodes, attacking my 8 stack with a 3/3/2/0 general on Cyprus by disembarking between 7 to 9 stacks about 10 times in a row (happily eating -2 penalty every time), sometimes even without a leader.

During the entire campaign, for about 30 years straight, Venice hat 6 noble rebels on Naxos (integrated the vassal) and proceeded to land 5 regiments (which got destroyed every time, of course) every few months. I would guess they lost several dozen regiments and tens of thousands of manpower to these nobles alone.

 

[Beagá]

Heh, they also love to attack in mountains behind rivers. If the province isn´t wargoal it´s very stupid to do so.

AI should know that risky maneuvers should be only done versus VERY crippled enemies. AI behavior IMO is the only really bad thing in this patch, yes, but it´s almost gamebreaking. Now that you ALWAYS know which terrain you will face, there is zero reason for such dumb moves. When there was 30% chance of mountains, ok.

 

[Umbosch]

Heh, they also love to attack in mountains behind rivers. If the province isn´t wargoal it´s very stupid to do so.

AI should know that risky maneuvers should be only done versus VERY crippled enemies. AI behavior IMO is the only really bad thing in this patch, yes, but it´s almost gamebreaking. Now that you ALWAYS know which terrain you will face, there is zero reason for such dumb moves. When there was 30% chance of mountains, ok.

The skills and stars of the leader/ conquistador should be have a effect how risky is the maneuvers.