Suggestions Thread ~ Leave your God Characters at the door.

[BaronIronmaggot]

Hey, you really need to tweak the "Summon Daedra" spells.

Using the lesser variant, always is a success (for me it had always been at least) and one can have a steady income of troops with that spell. Your 2000 men dremora army got decimated? No problem, spawn 2500 men to replace them.

And using the Greater Summon Daedra, is kind of easy too. I mean that, there doesn't really happen anything serious when one fails. Province just gain a modifier and that's it. And when one is successful the stuff just gets way out of hands. First I got 4000 men single unit. Then I got like 12 000 men single unit and then I got 40 000 men single unit. I would like to see a serious invasion of daedra. Sort of like the adventurer recruitment, where there spawns more and more 400 men troops at random intervals until the invasion is either lost or won. You could use similar approach for successful summon aswell. So that the troops pour into your province 100 men at a time over like 10 years and during that time, everyone gets a CB on you called "End Daedric channeling" or something like that.

Also, you don't have to make daedric portraits for that single event. Use the image relay like PD uses for the islam dude whose portrays is replaced by an image.

 

[Darsara]

Will their ever be plans to include the dueling mod?

Not really, since it would need a lot to even pretend it's balanced. A battlemage, Priest or Mage would be enormously overpowered in a straight fight against a fighter without certain items, and a dedicated fighter would slaughter a thief-type in a straight fight, if they were stupid enough to get dragged into one.

 

[alexgriff]

I imagine this comes up a fair bit, but is there any way to increase the default speed of armies? It takes what seems like forever just to travel short distances. I got embroiled in a war in Skyrim and it took me 6 months to get from Castlejoy to Whiterun. I mean is that just me? Is it all the mountains in the way? Still seemed really slow just crossing the plains. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense either, seeing as in Skyrim you can ride a horse from Riften to Markarth in two days.

 

[Onebitsoul]

I imagine this comes up a fair bit, but is there any way to increase the default speed of armies? It takes what seems like forever just to travel short distances. I got embroiled in a war in Skyrim and it took me 6 months to get from Castlejoy to Whiterun. I mean is that just me? Is it all the mountains in the way? Still seemed really slow just crossing the plains. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense either, seeing as in Skyrim you can ride a horse from Riften to Markarth in two days.

I like it how the distances are bigger in this mod than in the actual ES games, because they all seem so small to me. Skyrim and Cyrodiil combined have a population of like 500-1000 people. I have no clue how can there be wars in the actual games like the Great War and the civil war of Skyrim. Everyone should die in a month.

 

[Novacat]

I imagine this comes up a fair bit, but is there any way to increase the default speed of armies? It takes what seems like forever just to travel short distances. I got embroiled in a war in Skyrim and it took me 6 months to get from Castlejoy to Whiterun. I mean is that just me? Is it all the mountains in the way? Still seemed really slow just crossing the plains. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense either, seeing as in Skyrim you can ride a horse from Riften to Markarth in two days.

The Elder Scroll games are substantially scaled down. Even our Tamriel is scaled down compared to how it really is, considering that Tamriel as a landmass is roughly as big as Africa.

Here is what the Nirn landmasses look like when scaled 1:1 to Earth's landmasses

(yeah, Akavir is also way too big in the mod, we plan on correcting this eventually)

 

[lazprune]

Not really, since it would need a lot to even pretend it's balanced. A battlemage, Priest or Mage would be enormously overpowered in a straight fight against a fighter without certain items, and a dedicated fighter would slaughter a thief-type in a straight fight, if they were stupid enough to get dragged into one.

What about this idea? (page 45) It can be a good thing?

First I think you should introduce a combat system between two characters. I'll use the term “duel engine” for a better understanding but the one in AGOT is NOT adapted for your mod! Magicka, and education characteristics are not in AGOT and must influence your combat system! You should make a duel engine with more interactions, a choice to use magicka or not would be welcome.
I imagined that: a fight contains three events. In each of them the character chooses to attack with weapons (Warrior archetype ; Martial) or use magicka (Mage archetype ; Learning) or ability (Thief archetype ; Intrigue). Every character starts the battle with a secondary trait counting points like the magicka system (but for life) at 15 points.
You can choose any type of attack, no matter of your skills (but obviously the result will depend of your skills):

- A warrior attack (Martial) is more effective against a thief attack (Intrigue)

- A mage attack (Learning) is more effective against a warrior attack

- A thief attack is more effective against a mage attack

- Both the characters use the same attack: both lose about the same number of life points (but the most skilled in this attack loses less points)

When a character is hurt, the result depend of the difference between the two skills used. For example (simpler to explain with typical examples):
Character 1 uses Martial (Skilled: 19 Martial) and Character 2 uses Learning/Magicka (Skilled: 21) >>> 21 – 19 = 2 >>> Character 1 loses 2 points on its life secondary trait.
I Character 1 is Skilled 30 (same attacks) >>> 21 – 30 = – 9 >>> 9/2 = 4.5 >>> Character 2 loses 4 points (half dammages because a mage attack [Learning] is more effective against a warrior attack [Martial]).
After three events the battle ends and the characters lose their life secondary trait. A character with less than 7 points at the end gets 'wounded', with less than 4 points the character is maimed, with 0 the character dies.
The AI chooses what attack it does considering its skills and its enemy's ones but can't know the enemy's choice! Idem for the player who just tries to forecast.
If a character survives a battle, his skills in Martial increases if he used it, idem for Learning and Intrigue (example: Character 1 used Martial the first time, then Learning and again Martial for the third event >>> gets a skill upgrade of 2 points in Martial and 1 in Learning).
Currently a system of "fight" is available in your mod (meetings during pilgrimage) but it is too much, in my opinion, impersonal and fast (to prolong the suspense with several events is an asset to the immersion). Moreover two real characters (with a portrait in the game) can't fight...

 

[Onebitsoul]

The Elder Scroll games are substantially scaled down. Even our Tamriel is scaled down compared to how it really is, considering that Tamriel as a landmass is roughly as big as Africa.

Here is what the Nirn landmasses look like when scaled 1:1 to Earth's landmasses

(yeah, Akavir is also way too big in the mod, we plan on correcting this eventually)

So Daggerfall is the only game with realistic size?

 

[Ivir Baggins]

So Daggerfall is the only game with realistic size?

Yes. But that's because virtually all of it was procedurally generated i.e. made up on the spot. TBH, my ideal TES game would be Daggerfall-level sized at Skyrim-level, but I know that won't ever happen.

 

[Onebitsoul]

Yes. But that's because virtually all of it was procedurally generated i.e. made up on the spot. TBH, my ideal TES game would be Daggerfall-level sized at Skyrim-level, but I know that won't ever happen.

Making a map that big would take ages.

 

[alexgriff]

The Elder Scroll games are substantially scaled down. Even our Tamriel is scaled down compared to how it really is, considering that Tamriel as a landmass is roughly as big as Africa.

Right, I understand that. And of course I don't expect that we should be able to travel across the continent in a few in game days. That being said, and maybe this is just coming from me having not played in a bit and my mind exaggerating the memory, but it still feels very difficult to play because of the speed. So do you think there is there a feasible way to address that issue, or is it just what it is?

And I mean, I'm looking at that map, and I can see where I was travelling from and to, and the best equivalent I can think of is that it doesn't take 6 months to get from Denmark to Lithuania in vanilla.

 

[Korbah]

Right, I understand that. And of course I don't expect that we should be able to travel across the continent in a few in game days. That being said, and maybe this is just coming from me having not played in a bit and my mind exaggerating the memory, but it still feels very difficult to play because of the speed. So do you think there is there a feasible way to address that issue, or is it just what it is?

And I mean, I'm looking at that map, and I can see where I was travelling from and to, and the best equivalent I can think of is that it doesn't take 6 months to get from Denmark to Lithuania in vanilla.

Land movement speed is the same as vanilla.

 

[Orinsul]

The Elder Scroll games are substantially scaled down. Even our Tamriel is scaled down compared to how it really is, considering that Tamriel as a landmass is roughly as big as Africa.

Here is what the Nirn landmasses look like when scaled 1:1 to Earth's landmasses

(yeah, Akavir is also way too big in the mod, we plan on correcting this eventually)

What makes their Akavir any less made up than yours?
For the lore as given in the games it pretty much needs to be massive. That one doesnt even have room for athousand monkey islands let alone anything else.
I like the mods Akavir, big and hinting at offmap bigness for extra mystery also it's fun to play.
The Yokuda stuff looks unsupported too. The one in the mod matches the one UESP uses.

Land movement speed is the same as vanilla.

Maybe the higher concentration of smaller provinces or more mountains makes it seem slower?

 

[Korbah]

Maybe the higher concentration of smaller provinces or more mountains makes it seem slower?

Yes, it is confirmation bias.

 

[Darsara]

What makes their Akavir any less made up than yours?
For the lore as given in the games it pretty much needs to be massive. That one doesnt even have room for athousand monkey islands let alone anything else.
I like the mods Akavir, big and hinting at offmap bigness for extra mystery also it's fun to play.

Yeah, I kinda reeks of "it's fantasy Japan, so it must be about the same size!" thinking. Heck, the oveall design and placement of the map suggests the Author was trying to fit it all to real world geography; making Akivir match the curve eastern china and Korea; Yokuda's general match to the shape of the America's, Pyandonea fitting precisely into the Nigerian Delta.

 

[Novacat]

What makes their Akavir any less made up than yours?
The Yokuda stuff looks unsupported too. The one in the mod matches the one UESP uses.

Source is a former writer of Bethesda.

Theres two Yokudas, Projected is Yokuda before it blew up, Extant is the Yokuda thats left. We made the mistake of assuming that Extant Yokuda was the original Yokuda. Our mistake became a bit more obvious when there are lore references to the Left-handed elves having an empire three times the size of Septim's empire. So, if we do change Yokuda, it will likely grow in size a bit, but politically would mostly remain the same.

Yeah, I kinda reeks of "it's fantasy Japan, so it must be about the same size!" thinking. Heck, the oveall design and placement of the map suggests the Author was trying to fit it all to real world geography; making Akivir match the curve eastern china and Korea; Yokuda's general match to the shape of the America's, Pyandonea fitting precisely into the Nigerian Delta.

Well, the map was originally made as a comparison between Tamrielic continents and Earth continents. The positions are off for that reason. Also note that the exact shape/size of continents on the map are not exact, and Akavir/Atmora could look very, very different from whats depicted. The original map was only supposed to be a size comparison, nothing more. The two reasons why Akavir is changing is the following.

- The current map is unoriginal. Its basically supersized Wales.
- The current map does not properly depict the Akavir relations. Kamal and Tang Mo being on opposite ends of the continent being a huge one, even though the lore establishes a prominant Tang Mo/Kamal rivalry.
The current map is far too large:
- The Knahaten Flu is far too likely to hit Akavir first, which is the biggest reason why the Knahaten Flu's impact is so variable.
- Due to lack of notable landmarks, virtually all of Akavir's provinces are randomly generated clutter. Infact most of them are still using placeholder flags.
- Large numbers of provinces means large numbers of characters, which means more lag and slowdown.

So yes, the Akavir shrink will most certainly come. But it wont be in 0.1.6. Note that the new Yokuda will look nothing like the purple blob shown in the map, just be roughly of that size.

Now, im not sure Yokuda or Pyandonea will be changed. If Pyandonea is shrunk, it will likely still remain much bigger than depicted on the map simply because we want to retain the Interregnum political situation.

 

[Darsara]

- The current map is unoriginal. Its basically supersized Wales.
- The current map does not properly depict the Akavir relations. Kamal and Tang Mo being on opposite ends of the continent being a huge one, even though the lore establishes a prominant Tang Mo/Kamal rivalry.
The current map is far too large:
- The Knahaten Flu is far too likely to hit Akavir first, which is the biggest reason why the Knahaten Flu's impact is so variable.
- Due to lack of notable landmarks, virtually all of Akavir's provinces are randomly generated clutter. Infact most of them are still using placeholder flags.
- Large numbers of provinces means large numbers of characters, which means more lag and slowdown.

Sure, some editing (like shape, and about half the size) is fine, and understandable for all those reasons (although, I remember bringing up the second issue and it getting handwaved away by the Team ). Just that the suggested size is frankly a little improbable. All those alleged races and empires in an area about the size of Vvardenfell? Really?

 

[Novacat]

Four races/empires, and roughly about the size of Summerset Isle. A bit compact but not too implausable.

(although, I remember bringing up the second issue and it getting handwaved away by the Team ).

Not exactly handwaved if we are changing it.

 

[Darsara]

Four races/empires, and roughly about the size of Summerset Isle. A bit compact but not too implausable.



Not exactly handwaved if we are changing it.

Now
. Not then, though. But yeah, it's happening, so anyway. :yup: (darn, I wish this forum had the same depth of smilies as CivFanatics.)

 

[Arakhor]

Heh. CFC does have an extensive range.

 

[Roguedemon]

Why would Yokuda not be shaped like the purple blob? Its roughly that shape on this map http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:Tam-Maps-West_Tamriel.jpg which is the only one I can find anywhere as almost every other map of yokuda seems to use that as a source. Is there other information on it, or is it unsuitable for gameplay purposes or does the team just want creative freedom given that there isn't a whole lot of cannon information on the continent?

I'm also curious on what you will do with Akavir; I've seen near a million maps of it, but no-one can seem to agree on which, if any, is even remotely close to what Akavir actually is. Pyandonea at least has a somewhat cannon geography, and Yokuda has a maybe semi-cannon one that people seem to like, but there isn't a map of Akavir out there which you won't find people arguing that it couldn't possibly be Akavir for one reason or another. Most maps seem to sperate the Kamal and the thousand monkeys like EK's does, and the few that don't usually seem to end up with the thousand monkeys archipeligo being positionedrather oddly for an archipeligo at the centre of the continent, or snaking all over the place to avoid getting in the way of the rest of Akiviri politics but still having some proximity to the Ice hell of the Kamal while being a jungle archipeligo. To be honest, I can't really blame people for disagreeing so much on this one; while I don't know that Tang-Mo is necessarily ever described as jungle, that is what you'd expect from the home of monkey people, so you either end up with weird geography or having to explain why the Kamal are invading the opposite side of the continent, or snow monkeys, which while not necessarily a bad idea, seem more like fanfiction than whats actually described. Nonetheless, I'd be interested to see what you do with it, I've always liked the idea of Akavir (still hoping on TES VI: Mysterious Akavir), but it always seems just out of reach.

Also, is there any chance of any of the Island and sea zone positions being changed when you change Akivir? In particular, Roscrea should be north of Skyrim. IIRC the reason it is where it is on the EK map is because it was conquered by Uriel V, who also conquered the Islands between Tamriel and Akivir, so it made no geographical sense, but the thing is, I can't actually remember seeing any information suggesting that the conquest of Roscrea had anything to do with the invasion of Akivir, or that it was used as a staging post to get to the other Islands, just that it was something conquered in Uriel V's reign. I could well be wrong though - its been a long time since I've really read any of the lore so all I have to go off is my very bad memory and a few very light articles on UESP.

And as a final note I wonder if it might make sense to keep the Islands between Akivir and Tamriel (and Island chains in general) within two seazones of each other. This allows republics (when they exist in these areas) to create tradezones, both simulating some degree of trade, and giving some incentive for (at least certain countries) to take control of Island chains. That might well be a design decision for all I know, to stop tradezones from forming intentionally and keep these areas from interacting, so if thats the case feel free to ignore this.