Suggestions Thread ~ Leave your God Characters at the door.

[TheBoozehammer]

Indeed, in a quest in ESO you can communicate with the Hist after injecting a potion.
It takes the form of an Argonian. The Hist generally appears to be a sentient lifeform.

So something similar could work with Argonians. A Tree-mender who can speak for the Hist.

That sounds good. Also, while the Hist is many entities, they function with more or less the same will, IIRC. I would think they could be shown as one NPC, like an Argonian Pope. He could even call "Crusades" to retake Argonian lands, like when the daedra invaded.

 

[exin]

@Daguth-Ur: Again adding Boss Characters is... strange... How could we add him in that would not lead to his death by plot or assassination in 1 year? How would you go by defeating him? Again I think considering the limitations of the engine, adding him would either lead to a half implemented feature or an un-fun feature.

However adding servants that invade in his name, that is a good idea actually. If he wins we could have his religion overthrow Almsivi and make Almsivi a heresy and the Dunmer landed characters in Morrowind get a option to either swear fealty to him or stand with the Almsivi.

Destroying the heart, that could either be siege of a certain province or an event chain, with a highly death risk of your character.


@Almsivi servants: Also not a bad idea. Could have certain priests of the Tribunal act as their representatives. You could meet them during the pilgrimage for example? Or get more flavor with them in the offering at shrine decision.

That sounds good. Also, while the Hist is many entities, they function with more or less the same will, IIRC. I would think they could be shown as one NPC, like an Argonian Pope. He could even call "Crusades" to retake Argonian lands, like when the daedra invaded.

Again they are in game represented through their religion. However we could have an Argonian "Speaker" represent their.... Pope in game. Or simply we could use a Caliph system, where we can have an An-Xileel Argonian represent them.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hist[/URL]]It is said that all Hist are connected at the root—they speak to each other and to the An-Xileel.

In the Third Era, the Hist used their influence to call Argonians from across the Empire back to Black Marsh.

Having foreseen the Oblivion Crisis, the Hist (through the An-Xileel) ordered the Argonians to assault the invading Daedra. The Argonians poured into the Oblivion Gates with such ferocity that Dagon's lieutenants had to close them. This resulted in an astounding victory for the Argonians and led to the collapse of the Empire in Black Marsh as the Argonians turned to the An-Xileel.

As we know, the Hist are all connected and speak to each other, telepathy or who knows how, but they use specific individuals to actually communicate their will. Either they influence the Argonians at a subliminal level, like they did to call them back to the Black Marsh, or they use as seen above a An-Xileel to talk for them.

Again ESO represents things in its own way. This is a subject we have ye to discuss so until we reach a consensus, we're going with the TES Lore on this.

 

[Gurluas]

Dagoth-Ur would be a unit that appears at a certain point after the Tribunal lose access to the mountain. Similar to the planned Numidium, he should not be a character.
Also about the servants, I think they should actually be characters holding a landless title, and they can be interacted with both in events and by doing stuff to them. The Tribunal should either be units or part of events.

Also a different suggestion...Make it possible for those who worship Daedra indirectly to get their artifacts.
For instance...Allow Pyandoneans to get Dawnbreaker, and Ashlanders to get Azura's star, but at a higher price.
They both worship them after all.

And finally...Allow Chimers to form the Ebonheart pact.

 

[BaronIronmaggot]

Implementing Dagoth would give a nice excuse to make a "Posessed by the Devil" event lines, where random Dunmers can become sleepers. Plus, this would also give an excuse to implement another take on immortality. Get infected with corpus ... become immortal but forever incapable. Or join House Dagoth, become a high ranking priest and be transformed into an ash priest.

 

[exin]

Dagoth-Ur would be a unit that appears at a certain point after the Tribunal lose access to the mountain. Similar to the planned Numidium, he should not be a character.
Also about the servants, I think they should actually be characters holding a landless title, and they can be interacted with both in events and by doing stuff to them. The Tribunal should either be units or part of events.

Also a different suggestion...Make it possible for those who worship Daedra indirectly to get their artifacts.
For instance...Allow Pyandoneans to get Dawnbreaker, and Ashlanders to get Azura's star, but at a higher price.
They both worship them after all.

And finally...Allow Chimers to form the Ebonheart pact.

Alright, who would control the Unit? What faction?

I think servants could appear as leaders of spawned armies at best.

The Tribunal I agree should be part of events, but not units, again that brings us to 1 unit with God power. Basically any fight against them would be an instant loss. But as part of the events they should be present. Too bad no one wants to help us make more such events, so that might be happening somewhere in a bit distant future.

Hmm... in TES you only get those items after proving yourself to the Daedra Princes. I think we should keep it as it is, otherwise, why convert to a Daedric religion at all? Just to get a fancy artifact, it isn't worth it eliminating a religion. Specific artifacts for specific religions is part of the overall flavor of that religion. Also prevent super artifact hoarding.

And lastly, why allow Chimers to form the Ebonheart pact? Chimers no longer =/= Dunmer. The Ebonheart Pact is a specific alliance between Dunmer, Nords and Argonians. It would be like asking to allow Bretons and Imperials to form the Ebonheart Pact too, due to the fact that they are descendent from Nords. Or the other way around, allow Nords to form the Daggerfall Covenant because at some point Bretons were Nords.

 

[Gurluas]

The unit would be AI controlled and would be controlled by the Dagoth-Ur faction that would appear then, essentially a boss fight. Think of it like the Mongols in Vanilla just that instead of 100.000 units, you get one almost invincible unit.

As for the the artifacts. Well the Daedric religions should not be limited to artifacts, they should have flavors, holy sites, and specific goals like all other religions. Getting the artifact easily is the bonus for doing it in an exclusive faction.
So for instance, getting Dawnbreaker as a Pyandonean might require 3000 favor, and 1500 prestige instead of the much cheaper alternative when using the Cult of Meridia faction.

And finally...About the Chimers..
Because if a Chimer returns to Morrowind, converts to Almsivi, and eventually becomes the immortal queen of Resdayn, like in my game, it's pretty stupid she can't make the Ebonheart pact.

 

[exin]

The unit would be AI controlled and would be controlled by the Dagoth-Ur faction that would appear then, essentially a boss fight. Think of it like the Mongols in Vanilla just that instead of 100.000 units, you get one almost invincible unit.

As for the the artifacts. Well the Daedric religions should not be limited to artifacts, they should have flavors, holy sites, and specific goals like all other religions. Getting the artifact easily is the bonus for doing it in an exclusive faction.
So for instance, getting Dawnbreaker as a Pyandonean might require 3000 favor, and 1500 prestige instead of the much cheaper alternative when using the Cult of Meridia faction.

And finally...About the Chimers..
Because if a Chimer returns to Morrowind, converts to Almsivi, and eventually becomes the immortal queen of Resdayn, like in my game, it's pretty stupid she can't make the Ebonheart pact.

@Chimer: so we should open the Pact to all races basically. Since the immortal queen of Resdayn can become anyone. All you need to do is have strategy! Heh, I was Orsimer King of Morrowind ^^, before I gave it to my son and went about conquering Black Marsh. So it would also be stupid for my Immortal Mage Orsimer King of Resdayn not to form the Ebonheart Pact. Or my Nord King of High Rock form Daggerfall Covnenant. Again... Dunmer =/= Chimer. They are not longer the same sub-race. They are both Mer, but not the same sub-race, aka Chimer. Dunmers are Dunmers, and Chimers are Chimer, just like Nords are Nords and Bretons are Bretons, despite Bretons being a branch of the Nords. Just as Reachmen =/= Nords =/= Bretons.

Your Immortal Chimer Queen of Resdayn is like any other Immortal character of any Race holding the crown of Morrowind. The fact that she is Chimer makes her no more special than a Tsaesci, Kamal, Argonian, Khajiit, Bosmer, Altmer or Ayleid. So if you want we could discuss opening the Alliances to anyone basically. Eliminating what made them special in the first place.

@Artifacts: Hmm, not convinced. There already plenty of achievable artifacts, we like that he Daedric ones are a specific reward for staying true to one Daedric Prince. Because in all honesty, this can go further. Even the Eight Divines believe in the Daedra, is the nature of TES. Everyone knows that the Daedra exist, so by acknowledging their existence that implies at least a limited form of belief. So everyone should be able to get those Artifacts. Which leads to the Daedric artifacts loosing their special meaning and just becoming another mundane named artifact.

@Dagoth: I don't think we can add him as a unit nor as a character. Apparently he himself is a God, and the only reason he was defeated was that his connection to the Heart of Lorkhain was broken, making him a mortal. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Loreagoth_Ur. Which means that outside of an Event where the player has to do that, before fighting him, a military unit Dagoth-Ur would be invincible, unless fought by another God. So... no.

 

[kvk]

The unit would be AI controlled and would be controlled by the Dagoth-Ur faction that would appear then, essentially a boss fight. Think of it like the Mongols in Vanilla just that instead of 100.000 units, you get one almost invincible unit.

As for the the artifacts. Well the Daedric religions should not be limited to artifacts, they should have flavors, holy sites, and specific goals like all other religions. Getting the artifact easily is the bonus for doing it in an exclusive faction.
So for instance, getting Dawnbreaker as a Pyandonean might require 3000 favor, and 1500 prestige instead of the much cheaper alternative when using the Cult of Meridia faction.

And finally...About the Chimers..
Because if a Chimer returns to Morrowind, converts to Almsivi, and eventually becomes the immortal queen of Resdayn, like in my game, it's pretty stupid she can't make the Ebonheart pact.

Wait are those "alliances" from ESO in Elder kings?

 

[Novacat]

Wait are those "alliances" from ESO in Elder kings?

They were at one time, but were disabled due to them causing problems and will probably be removed since I cannot think of a decent way to impliment them.

 

[Gurluas]

They were at one time, but were disabled due to them causing problems and will probably be removed since I cannot think of a decent way to impliment them.

Just add them as empire titles you can form if you hold all three required kingdoms.
I.E to make the Ebonheart pact you need Argonia, Morrowind and Skyrim.

Also the Meridia religion really needs some attention.
I'd recommend adding holy sites to begin with.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Delodiil
Delodiil would be a good one for Meridia.
With Abagarlas being a good one for Molag Bal.
The Adamantine tower and possibly the Crystal tower might be good holy sites too.
Maybe the location of Silvernar would be a good fifth one, as it was the Sacred Grove.

 

[BaronIronmaggot]

Just add them as empire titles you can form if you hold all three required kingdoms.
I.E to make the Ebonheart pact you need Argonia, Morrowind and Skyrim.

Bu-bu-but if I am an Argonian and hold Argonia, Elsweyr and Valenwood? Why can't i form the Forest Folk Consortium?

 

[Gurluas]

Bu-bu-but if I am an Argonian and hold Argonia, Elsweyr and Valenwood? Why can't i form the Forest Folk Consortium?

If necessary such titles can always be invented later.
First priority should be to get the ones existing in lore in the mod.

 

[Korbah]

If necessary such titles can always be invented later.
First priority should be to get the ones existing in lore in the mod.

Well the problem is, they are alliances not Empires. I had implemented them as Empires with specific creation conditions (some of which didn't work to plan, hence the problems, although they aren't as dramatic as they sound, simply that the Empires were forming too easily and I'd scripted it so the HKs could decide if they wanted to join or not, and often due to relations between the realms they chose not so you ended up with an Ebonheart Pact that consisted of just Skyrim for example); but really Empires don't fit the bill well enough. The "Alliances" were just that, Alliances, they may have had some form of united Army (although I'm not sure if it really was united) but internal politics was likely internal to each realm; would the Ebonheart Pact interfere say in internal Argonian politics? Say there's a tribal dispute, I doubt the Argonians would be happy with a Nord or a Dunmer mediating and determining the outcome. Also in terms of CK2, you have the problem of the "Emperors" usurping or plotting to usurp their vassals, and any titles that pop up are 9 times out of ten landed with their own cultures (such as a Nord being given bits of Argonia).
No, Empires really don't work well at all. If you want to see the Pact and so on in the mod you need to talk to Paradox and ask them to implement my idea of opinion based alliances (we have banish = yes, prison = yes meaning you can banish or imprison based on opinions, so why not include alliance = yes? from the looks of things, alliances are based on marriage/familial opinions anyway); that way we can include event driven alliances that will assist each other militarily, but will leave each other's realms alone.

 

[Gurluas]

Actually an Elective Empire is the best way to represent it.
Each Alliance has a High King that was chosen out of the three leaders, and their armies are completely united.
There are even academies created specifically for the Alliance armies.

The individual leaders can very well cause internal trouble, this was a big part of the later Pact storyline set in Eastmarch.
And this is represented well with the standard scheming and intrigue system.

I'd make them Elective empires that require all 3 empires to pledge in order to form it. If one says no, the Alliance won't be formed.
And every twenty years there is a vote event on whether to continue the Alliance. If the vote fails, the title is destroyed.

Unfortunately I have no hold over Paradox. I've been asking for the option for Hellenics to form the Roman Empire for 5 patches now.

 

[Corprus42]

I have a couple questions/suggestions about religions.

1. Would it be possible to make it so that necromancy cult followers have a positive opinion modifier (or at least not a negative one) towards characters with the "necromancer", "lich" and "undead" traits? It seems a bit odd for them to have issues with those.

2. Shouldn't some of the current leader-less religions (e.g. daedra cults, old gods) be reformable? I don't think it'd be too farfetched of an idea, and it'd make for an alright "campaign" of sorts: pick your favourite cult and attempt to elevate it to the same position as the Nedic or Altmeri religions.

Oh, and on a personal note it'd be nice if Altmer could form the Bretonnic Empire. It's a bit frustrating that in my Direnni game I'll now have to either assassinate dragonborn in the hopes of becoming one myself (so that I can get the amulet of kings) or conquer Alinor + Valenwood/Elseweyr in order to create the Dominion. I'd get around to conquering them at some point anyways, and it's a small complaint, but still...

 

[TheBoozehammer]

I have a couple questions/suggestions about religions.

1. Would it be possible to make it so that necromancy cult followers have a positive opinion modifier (or at least not a negative one) towards characters with the "necromancer", "lich" and "undead" traits? It seems a bit odd for them to have issues with those.

2. Shouldn't some of the current leader-less religions (e.g. daedra cults, old gods) be reformable? I don't think it'd be too farfetched of an idea, and it'd make for an alright "campaign" of sorts: pick your favourite cult and attempt to elevate it to the same position as the Nedic or Altmeri religions.

Oh, and on a personal note it'd be nice if Altmer could form the Bretonnic Empire. It's a bit frustrating that in my Direnni game I'll now have to either assassinate dragonborn in the hopes of becoming one myself (so that I can get the amulet of kings) or conquer Alinor + Valenwood/Elseweyr in order to create the Dominion. I'd get around to conquering them at some point anyways, and it's a small complaint, but still...

1. Agreed
2. Old Gods makes sense, but the leader of the Daedra Cults is the Daedric Prince.
3. A Direnni Empire could be cool.

 

[kvk]

I have a couple questions/suggestions about religions.

1. Would it be possible to make it so that necromancy cult followers have a positive opinion modifier (or at least not a negative one) towards characters with the "necromancer", "lich" and "undead" traits? It seems a bit odd for them to have issues with those.

2. Shouldn't some of the current leader-less religions (e.g. daedra cults, old gods) be reformable? I don't think it'd be too farfetched of an idea, and it'd make for an alright "campaign" of sorts: pick your favourite cult and attempt to elevate it to the same position as the Nedic or Altmeri religions.

Oh, and on a personal note it'd be nice if Altmer could form the Bretonnic Empire. It's a bit frustrating that in my Direnni game I'll now have to either assassinate dragonborn in the hopes of becoming one myself (so that I can get the amulet of kings) or conquer Alinor + Valenwood/Elseweyr in order to create the Dominion. I'd get around to conquering them at some point anyways, and it's a small complaint, but still...

I didn't think you needed to be dragonborn to get the amulet of kings.

 

[Corprus42]

I didn't think you needed to be dragonborn to get the amulet of kings.

You don't? I thought I read you needed either dragonborn or dragon blood if you weren't human? Guess I'll keep surveying Sancre Tor, then.

 

[JimThePocket]

@Dagoth: I don't think we can add him as a unit nor as a character. Apparently he himself is a God, and the only reason he was defeated was that his connection to the Heart of Lorkhain was broken, making him a mortal. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Loreagoth_Ur. Which means that outside of an Event where the player has to do that, before fighting him, a military unit Dagoth-Ur would be invincible, unless fought by another God. So... no.

Yeah, I think limiting it to his servants/Ash Vampires would be better, with the religion switch you mentioned if they win.

They should get a Numidium unit on taking Morrowind though, to represent them finishing Akulakhan (assuming you guys still intend to put Numidium in the mod).

 

[kvk]

You don't? I thought I read you needed either dragonborn or dragon blood if you weren't human? Guess I'll keep surveying Sancre Tor, then.

Im not sure, I thought it was only required if you wanted to ascend to godhood as a nonhuman (being dragonborn) follower of the 8 divines, but yeah im probably wrong.