Suggestions - pagan doctrines

[moscal]

I start this concept by "joke-doctrine", but later I thought that... there is possibility that in next patches we can get new doctrines. Therefore I want to start this topic, which may be the inspiration for Devs in future times.

 

[moscal]

Next

If anybody want clear scheme

 

[Tryvenyal]

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I guess I can cross post this here? It doesn't seem like the suggestion forum is that useful though since I don't see the devs posting in here at all and as a result the user attention is minimal.

One doctrine idea I think would make either a good addition for the base game or a mod would be something related to intrigue and culture. Who wouldn't want to have Loki as one of their patron gods? As well as something for those who love decadent culturally focused courts of the upper upper class spending their days engaged in rituals, games, poetry, courtship, and other cultural pursuits. Here's the benefits list I've thought of so far:

• +2 Intrigue for followers of this religion.
• The befriend and antagonize actions are more effective. Members of the religion are more likely to form friendships and rivalries (triggered by special events if mechanics are unavailable due to missing DLC). Rivalries are especially likely with foreign infidels.
• No/reduced penalties for kinslaying, murdering, adulteration, and legitimizing bastards.
• AI is less likely to start religious wars, more likely to start plots (especially to murder dangerous infidels in other courts), and very likely to pick either diplomacy or intrigue focuses (carousing, family, seduction, and intrigue).
• Possibly flavor events for decadent courts that take money and levy penalties for prestige, plot power, and cultural technology.

Some possible names, though it's tough to come up with ways to say that murder and intrigue is good/holy:

• Decadent Court
• Courtly Intrigue
• Shadow Stalkers
• Tricksters
• Underhanded Dealings

EDIT: Also synergy idea, if combined with either warlike or a prepared invasions doctrine, intrigue education characters with at least 10 martial can gain a combat leadership skill upon reaching adulthood and there's one or two special leadership skills unlocked related to religious combat, flanking skill, and experimentality.

 

[Finn Mason]

Can I post serious suggestions here? Even if this thread started as a joke I'd like to pitch in with a suggestions or improvements of my own:

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As you can see from above doctrine list, certain pagan exclusive doctrines seem to be more powerful than others:
zunists can marry up to four sisters (or something like that),
tengri ignore defencive attrition, deal more damage and can have multiple wives,
bön has meritoccratic full gender equality,
africans can remove unworthy ones from inheritance, get more money out of infidels and elders pitch in inheritance process,
norse get kingdom level invasions, river navigation and reduced ship costs,
and slavics can navigate rivers, have stable inheritance (no short reign penalty), and rulers can improve vassal behaviour though piety.

When comparing those two offensive and four defensive to Baltic (eldership succession and resistance against foreing missionaries ) and Finno-Ugric religions (stable inheritance and missionary resistance) the two aforementioned religions seem to be bit lacking, but that's my opinion. You might be perfectly happy with the perks, and maybe religious resistance is that powerful, but if you would be in charge of content design, would you add anything, replace, or remove a perk from these two?

Here's my suggestions:
Romuvan exclusive reformation dotrine would add land morale for defending homeland against foreign religions, in addition for eldership succession and missionary resistance

Suomenusko religious head (if any) can venerate ancestor.

These are just my suggestions, would they be too overpowered, too specific, or not unique enough? Feel free to give your own suggestions how'd you change the exclusive doctrines.

And to get this thread back on topic:

If you have any critique, feel free to post it.

 

[fredrikslicer]

Tried to upload an image but to no awail so Ill do it in text instead

Coven:
Enatic succession enforced
Eldership succession enforced
No malus for female rulers
No short reign penalty

 

[moscal]

Alternative for hellenics

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Legalism and Justice

• Rulers have +1 Demesne size and +10% vassal capacity.
• Priests are less prone to corruption. (Less likely to abuse their positions, but also harder to bribe and manipulate.)
• Religion values the just and frowns on the arbitrary. (Temple opinion modifiers and affects wicked/unworthy traits.)

 

[BaronIronmaggot]

Here's my suggestions:
Romuvan exclusive reformation dotrine would add land morale for defending homeland against foreign religions, in addition for eldership succession and missionary resistance
View attachment 411442
Suomenusko religious head (if any) can venerate ancestor.
View attachment 411445

These are just my suggestions, would they be too overpowered, too specific, or not unique enough? Feel free to give your own suggestions how'd you change the exclusive doctrines.

If you have any critique, feel free to post it.

I think Romuva one is kinda obsolete. Pagan Romuva and pagan Suomenusko will probably have the "Unyielding" nature doctrine, which already provides strength to troops when defending homeland and protects against proselytizing.

These specific doctrines should be the ones which grant them that special flavor without borrowing too much from the other doctrines. First off I think that one trait should be common between both exclusive doctrines. "Grant access to Sage society". It should be a new public society which would be like the other non-pagan public societies combined and not so specialist. Both Suomenusko and Romuva folklore talks about sages of many kinds. The Oracle of Kurzeme. The Wind Sages of Lapland. The Underworld Sages of Estonia. You get the point.

One unifiying feature of Fenno-Ugric (Suomenusko) people is the concept of "wäki" - a force or power inherent in all beings which you can get more of if you know what you are doing. Thus Suomenusko should also have the following modifier in their exclusive doctrine: "General army morale bonus against heathens". Reason being that if they have such a concept then they probably are making sure that they have as much of the "wäki" as possible and since heathens don't believe in "wäki", they are not making sure that they have as much of it as possible. Thus the Suomenusko warriors have greater confidence in their victory in battle.

I don't know much about Romuva to make a fair judgement about what their unifying flavor should be so I base their bonus on their historical feat - maintaining their pagan religion for quite a long time. Thus, perhaps Romuva should have the following effect in their exclusive trait "Bonus to Moral Authority".

 

[Finn Mason]

These specific doctrines should be the ones which grant them that special flavor without borrowing too much from the other doctrines. First off I think that one trait should be common between both exclusive doctrines. "Grant access to Sage society". It should be a new public society which would be like the other non-pagan public societies combined and not so specialist. Both Suomenusko and Romuva folklore talks about sages of many kinds. The Oracle of Kurzeme. The Wind Sages of Lapland. The Underworld Sages of Estonia. You get the point.

One unifiying feature of Fenno-Ugric (Suomenusko) people is the concept of "wäki" - a force or power inherent in all beings which you can get more of if you know what you are doing. Thus Suomenusko should also have the following modifier in their exclusive doctrine: "General army morale bonus against heathens". Reason being that if they have such a concept then they probably are making sure that they have as much of the "wäki" as possible and since heathens don't believe in "wäki", they are not making sure that they have as much of it as possible. Thus the Suomenusko warriors have greater confidence in their victory in battle.

That's actually a great idea. And I find it's intriguing way that väki is spelled archaically as wäki, that's a nice touch. And pagan's need some sort of monastic/sage/soothsayer society too. Maybe finno-ugric and baltics should have poet society of sorts too?

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I think Romuva one is kinda obsolete. Pagan Romuva and pagan Suomenusko will probably have the "Unyielding" nature doctrine, which already provides strength to troops when defending homeland and protects against proselytizing.

These specific doctrines should be the ones which grant them that special flavor without borrowing too much from the other doctrines. First off I think that one trait should be common between both exclusive doctrines. "Grant access to Sage society". It should be a new public society which would be like the other non-pagan public societies combined and not so specialist. Both Suomenusko and Romuva folklore talks about sages of many kinds. The Oracle of Kurzeme. The Wind Sages of Lapland. The Underworld Sages of Estonia. You get the point.

So the sage societies are essentially pagan monastic orders, or did you have something else in mind for them? There's likely appropriate gods that can be found for the other pagan religions to venerate for such a society, like Odin.

 

[BaronIronmaggot]

So the sage societies are essentially pagan monastic orders, or did you have something else in mind for them? There's likely appropriate gods that can be found for the other pagan religions to venerate for such a society, like Odin.

I meant it just as a collection of Sages sharing knowledge between each other.

 

[klopkr]

 

[moscal]