Suggestions: Giving Rebels some techs & let rebel faction fight each other

[tarpoon]

Hello everybody,

has it been discussed before whether rebels should have army techs or not? It bothers me somewhat that even a large 100.000 men Jacobin uprising can be crushed without losses by a few divisions 1/10th the strength on autohunt even if they spawn in good defensive terrain.
I think they should at least get 1/2 of the techs the country they spawned from has + all the light armament techs.

While we are at it I'd also suggest that Rebels from different (hostile to each other) movements fight against each other.
I've seen the following happening to weak AI countries (no money for troop supplies) quite often and don't think it is plausible (from a realism perspective):
- Faction A rebels in AI country and starts to occupy the capital
- Faction B rebels in the same country and takes a few provinces as well
- Both start to wander around and whatever regular army the AI has left is destroyed
- Faction A wins and disbands its troops
- Faction B starts to occupy the provinces previously occupied by Faction A, including the capital
- Faction B wins

If hostile rebel factions would fight each other like they would in reality and the troops of the winning faction would stay mobilized a bit until the new regime stabilizes we would have very nice "small civil wars" instead of 2 or 3 revolutions in a row because the AI doesn't get a chance to raise enough brigades to clear the leftover rebel troops & occupations after a successful revolution.


- Tarpoon

 

[unmerged(160565)]

Hello everybody,

has it been discussed before whether rebels should have army techs or not? It bothers me somewhat that even a large 100.000 men Jacobin uprising can be crushed without losses by a few divisions 1/10th the strength on autohunt even if they spawn in good defensive terrain.
I think they should at least get 1/2 of the techs the country they spawned from has + all the light armament techs.

While we are at it I'd also suggest that Rebels from different (hostile to each other) movements fight against each other.
I've seen the following happening to weak AI countries (no money for troop supplies) quite often and don't think it is plausible (from a realism perspective):
- Faction A rebels in AI country and starts to occupy the capital
- Faction B rebels in the same country and takes a few provinces as well
- Both start to wander around and whatever regular army the AI has left is destroyed
- Faction A wins and disbands its troops
- Faction B starts to occupy the provinces previously occupied by Faction A, including the capital
- Faction B wins

If hostile rebel factions would fight each other like they would in reality and the troops of the winning faction would stay mobilized a bit until the new regime stabilizes we would have very nice "small civil wars" instead of 2 or 3 revolutions in a row because the AI doesn't get a chance to raise enough brigades to clear the leftover rebel troops & occupations after a successful revolution.


- Tarpoon

I personally would love to see nations broken up into civil war-esque factions if different rebels popped up. I'd also like to be able to support rebellions in nations. I'd kill to beable to fund and support some rebels to like... liberate india from england or some such.

 

[grimkm]

I personally would love to see nations broken up into civil war-esque factions if different rebels popped up. I'd also like to be able to support rebellions in nations. I'd kill to beable to fund and support some rebels to like... liberate india from england or some such.

Now we're talking. I frequently welcome my communist rebels with open arms to my capital. But a very useful feature, especially playing smaller less military dependant nations. Surely, this world must be able to be controlled with pure evil.

 

[Wminus]

Yes all of these are great suggestions. I summed them up:

a) Being able to covertly fund rebel groups (but with there being a chance of detection and infamy).
b) Rebels spawning with the same tech as the country they are rebelling from is a MUST. Otherwise rebels aren't a threat, but nothing more than a boring chore.
c) Rebels groups fighting each other.

 

[s1234567890m]

Yes all of these are great suggestions. I summed them up:

a) Being able to covertly fund rebel groups (but with there being a chance of detection and infamy).
b) Rebels spawning with the same tech as the country they are rebelling from is a MUST.
c) Rebels groups fighting each other.

....b) seeing as they are angry mobs, and can get upto 1000's of brigades it might not be te best idea

 

[Jazumir]

yeah, b) must be moderated.

i have another one: Yesterday, AI-france was in trouble (AHD2.1): 1st anarcho liberals take over the country. Then a communist rebelion starts. The French manage (after their war with prussia is lost) to take back all the provinces from the communists in metroploitan france, but all their african colonies (and their brazillian possissions) stay firmly under communist rule for decades... So: If rebels, regardless of what faction, take over whole (colonial?) states and keep them under their boots for x years, say, these states should declare independence and form (a) new nation(s). Then, depending on the rebel-type, some of these new nations would aspire to take the motherland, too, while others wont, maybe. Reactionaries and fascists would try to seize the motherland, conservatives, liberals (do the later two revolt, ever at all?), anarcho-liberal and socialists wouldnt care (like your typical independence movement) and communists try to spread the revolution anyways, regardless who it is. Or somesuch. Anyways, would have been nice to see a ´communistes etats unié de l´africe´ (my french is horrible, i know) spawn yesterday, instead of looking at striped provinces for decades.

 

[Wminus]

How come? the rebels already almost always spawn as irregulars..

 

[tarpoon]

....b) seeing as they are angry mobs, and can get upto 1000's of brigades it might not be te best idea

Thats why I suggested to give them only 1/2 of the Org and Tactics improving techs but all the small weapon techs.
Think of it as some veterans joining the rebellion and giving the civilians some basic training after they raided the local army depots for weapons.

 

[Wminus]

I thought we were talking about major revolutions and rebellions, like the ones in S. Africa and Russia - as opposed to some angry mobs. Regardless, if the rebels are few in number then they are still little threat, modern weaponry or not.