Suggestions From A Female Gamer

[child_of_air]

I'm not sure if Paradox wants to or cares about attracting female players at all, but I'm going to assume that they do. (Who doesn't want to increase their fan base?) I frequent some reddit forums and other communities for the game, and most of the other female gamers that I've been talking to agree with me about some things that we would like to see changed. I'm sure that quite a few male gamers would also get on board with these changes too, given that they would make the game more dynamic and add depth.

1. Daughters should have the ability to refuse perspective marriage partners. In Christendom throughout the medieval era, ladies were always given the power of refusal when it came to marriage and engagement- their consent was required for the marriage to take place. Many princesses and ladies have thwarted the plans of their fathers or brothers by refusing to get married to their chosen candidate, and we feel that daughters in the game should be given that choice as well. She should be able to say no on the grounds of religious difference, age of the candidate, whether or not the candidate already has heirs, and the traits or reputation of the candidate. I think in some cases, the player should have to use a hook to arrange a marriage if their daughters don't want the match. The idea of children always complying is unrealistic and simply didn't always happen that way in real life. Edited to add- Since writing this I think points #2 and #3 are more important. However, I think point #1 is still a very intriguing idea and I would love to see it implemented.

2. Children, and particularly, daughters in the game are so empty and only really useful for one thing- marriage alliances. I'd really like to see that changed and be able to give them a small role in perhaps diplomacy or intrigue, or at least have more events where we interact with them and are given a chance to have a bond with them. So far I've only ever tutored them and had a snowball fight or two, and then they get married and are gone. Maybe getting a letter from them informing the player of events at their spouse's court? Or even just saying hello would be nice. Families didn't just cut off their daughters entirely once they got married. They still continued to have a relationship with their parents and very often gave them the lowdown on the court of their spouse. Even a simple birth announcement for a grandchild would be an improvement! I have to constantly check my family tree to see what is going on with my children, as things stand now.

3. Spouses, and the player's relationships with them, are also pretty empty. The only real interaction we have with them is if we throw a feast, romance them or seduce them. I realize that they are able to help out behind the scenes, but we hear so little from them in the first person and interact with them so infrequently. Example: My husband and soulmate of 30 years once put a rose on my pillow, after I pressed his claim on the Kingdom of England! It was nice, but after 30 years I was hoping for more. I've heard male players express this wish as well! Please give us a bit more depth when it comes to marriage.

I'm really looking forward to the upcoming expansion and I really love the game. I just think it should be expanded upon a bit to include more interesting interactions when the realm is at peace, as it sometimes is. There is a huge emphasis on family and dynasty, but that exact same family interaction falls a bit short. Thanks so much for reading this and thank you for your hard work.

 

[Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom!]

I hope it's more than a discussion. I hope that some of my ideas get implemented into the game.

It's happened before, the "raise men at arms" button was my suggestion which they even acknowledged on the forum as they locked my suggestion.

Point is, stay hopeful, Paradox actually reads their forum! They even engage with their players and take suggestions too! (unlike Rogue Planet Games)

 

[SeraphAscending]

As most people do, i do not agree with the notion expressed in #1 that significant value was put on "consent" - consent is not an easy topic. Direct coercion, social expectations and pressures, etc. all come into play here.
The modern notion of freedom of choice is not really a thing in feudal societies that were often built on the idea that you are born into servitude of your superiors.
I don't know much about other religions, but especially in christianity aristocratic women that had any agency in who they are going to marry were the absolute minority. Did it happen? Sure. Was it remotely representative of the average experience of noble women of that time? Absolutely not.

However, that doesn't mean people never objected or tried to change someone's mind about their decision.
I would really love if that could happen. You arrange a marriage, but your child objects. For a variety of reasons - even things already in the game.

• they could be asexual/homosexual and would just rather not
• they hate you and want to defy you
• they hate the betrothed
• they would marry someone of lesser rank and object to be treated as "not worth more than that"
• they have a lover that they say they would rather marry (potential eloping, too)

The player would then have to choose whether they force the marriage or give in to their child's wishes. (if you had already arranged the betrothal, you would get all the downsides of breaking a bethrothal.)

• using a hook will make them hate you (a lot) for forcing them
• using only your authority will make them hate you a lot more, give you dread and you lose opinion with everyone who likes them a lot

If you try to force them, they might elope or run away. (Especially if you don't use a hook)

This would make the very cold and calculated way players might go about marrying off their children and other relatives a bit more spicy.
If you give someone your daughter to marry, but she is forced to, she hates you and her spouse and the spouse might start disliking you a lot. Especially in monogamous faiths with no tolerated adultery.

Other things people suggested would also be massively reduced fertility and heightened risk of cheating on their partner. I think those are great ideas, too.

 

[Amtep]

The peasants do have a choice, until they are courtiers. Guest, wanderers etc make their own deals.

Though there seems to be a bit of a bug with betrothals. I occasionally get an event right after I invite someone to court, where they suddenly want to marry the person they're betrothed to. When I check, I see they're both in their 30s and have apparently been betrothed for 20 years, without acting on it because they had no liege.

 

[Dread Og]

1. Daughters should have the ability to refuse perspective marriage partners.

***I'm being somewhat humorous in this post but I am making a serious point about how the AI works and how letting it have more influence over marriage choices would be disastrous***

What you're saying is good in theory but in terms of actual gameplay I don't think the AI could be good enough to identify what a bad marriage actually is. I roleplay as an entire Dynasty and I'm making decisions for the good of the entire Dynasty. I'm capable of making fine distinctions that the AI is incapable of making when it comes to matchmaking.

The screenshots show the difference between me making the choices and what kind of choices the "AI" makes.


Screenshot 1: Queen Gersenda Adalaisez of England. She is a product of 8 generations of selective choices where I fully investigated entire family trees for a substantial number of hours and any refusal could have led to disastrous consequences (see screenshots 2-4).

Screenshots 2-4: The way the AI dynasties naturally evolve to look about three centuries into the game.

Screenshot 5: A random Ghurid woman from the same part of the world as screenshots 2-4 but from when I was playing in that region in another game.

I typically try to find my children good marriages, not just marry them off to some person they will be unhappy with or are not able to have children with. Part of the game is to have your dynasty grow and thrive, and just looking to marriage as an alliance and an alliance only, is a very short sighted view.

Precisely! I sometimes go through a hundred potential suitors when finding a marriage partner for my princesses (or princes). I'm already considering the marriages from their perspectives and what they would actually be happy with. Queen Gersenda Adalaisez of England's husband was the best that I could find (first screenshot). It'd be crazy if she refused for some arbitrary AI reason but then accepted a marriage to Amir Hisen II (second screenshot).

 

[SeraphAscending]

What you're saying is good in theory but in terms of actual gameplay I don't think the AI could be good enough to identify what a bad marriage actually is. I roleplay as an entire Dynasty and I'm making decisions for the good of the entire Dynasty. I'm capable of making fine distinctions that the AI is incapable of making when it comes to matchmaking.

The screenshots show the difference between me making the choices and what kind of choices the "AI" makes.

As i suggested just before you:
I doesn't have to be arbitrary AI reasons and it should be very unlikely for the person to actually be able to refuse, but only to object. You are still in charge and can enforce it. Something like the character eloping instead should be very unlikely.

However, that doesn't mean people never objected or tried to change someone's mind about their decision.
I would really love if that could happen. You arrange a marriage, but your child objects. For a variety of reasons - even things already in the game.

• they could be asexual/homosexual and would just rather not
• they hate you and want to defy you
• they hate the betrothed
• they would marry someone of lesser rank and object to be treated as "not worth more than that"
• they have a lover that they say they would rather marry (potential eloping, too)

The player would then have to choose whether they force the marriage or give in to their child's wishes. (if you had already arranged the betrothal, you would get all the downsides of breaking a bethrothal. - potentially with a slight opinion bonus from your compassionate courtiers.)

• using a hook will make them hate you (a lot) for forcing them
• using only your authority will make them hate you a lot more, give you dread and you lose opinion with everyone who likes them a lot

I think that would give a lot of flavor and not be "arbitrary AI reasons".
It also limits the agency of your the betrothed - it might only make them love or hate you depending on your decisions. (Or give or lose you stress depending on personality)

 

[Dread Og]

As i suggested just before you:
I doesn't have to be arbitrary AI reasons and it should be very unlikely for the person to actually be able to refuse, but only to object. You are still in charge and can enforce it. Something like the character eloping instead should be very unlikely.


I think that would give a lot of flavor and not be "arbitrary AI reasons".
It also limits the agency of your the betrothed - it might only make them love or hate you depending on your decisions. (Or give or lose you stress depending on personality)

I tried to skim the thread but didn't get to your post. You are calling for ways that dynasty members can react to marriage choices such as they lose opinion with you and you maybe even have to take tyranny for your choices but no "hard locks" which is actually the right solution and I fully agree. That would make the game more dynamic.

Sorry I just started imagining nightmare scenarios where I go through everything with a fine-tooth comb and then the dynasty member in question refuses a perfect marriage and it leaves me completely baffled (I just know that's how the AI would work in reality). I will be factoring everything in: Prestige, alliance, character traits, character models and to refuse would simply leave the dynasty member with much worse options. Like with Gersenda the choices were "you can be the Queen of England" where everything seems to check out with the husband and you'll have a lot of power or there's a bunch of "Hills Have Eyes" marriages out there. Hopefully the AI would be good enough to see what I'm seeing but it not being able to and then locking me out of the perfect marriage choice was my biggest worry.

I would really love if that could happen. You arrange a marriage, but your child objects. For a variety of reasons - even things already in the game.

• they could be asexual/homosexual and would just rather not

And the fertility rate of any marriage you arrange could be much lower if a character has those traits (like you wrote). The game massively boosts fertility for ranked positions and Emperors have the highest fertility rates of all (which doesn't make sense in my mind but that's another discussion). One time I got a "suspicious of wife" popup and it turned out she had several female lovers and I saw that she had the "homosexual" trait. I was just like "ohh that makes perfect sense" but I would have had no idea based on the number of kids we were having. Some more marital trouble popups and maybe difficulty in having children would have made sense in this case.

Whether or not she would have "refused" the marriage to me in the first place I have no idea. The marriage to the most powerful Emperor in the world gave her so much power, influence, and protection (I didn't care about the lovers but an AI ruler might have killed her for it) that I'm not sure that my marriage proposal would have ever been refused. But I do think those traits should have had more of an impact on the marriage because as far as I can tell if I didn't look at the tiny orientation icon before the marriage (I didn't) and if my Spymaster didn't discover something then I would have never thought anything because there was just a bunch of kids being born and her being "homosexual" didn't really impact the marriage at all. I'm not saying she shouldn't have had any kids (because I suppose that comes with the position and was an expectation) but 8 kids seemed a bit much . . .

The player would then have to choose whether they force the marriage or give in to their child's wishes. (if you had already arranged the betrothal, you would get all the downsides of breaking a bethrothal.)

So the opinion maluses or consequences would only come up once the marriage is ready to go through, right? I fully agree with there being possible pushback to a marriage. My betrothals are often schemes to gain a temporary advantage and I have no intention of allowing many of my betrothals to go through so my dynasty members definitely don't need to overreact to those though the AI letting me break a 10th betrothal without serious consequences is a whole other issue. I'm just glad there's no Walder Frey in CK3.

 

[SeraphAscending]

I tried to skim the thread but didn't get to your post.

Don't worry, i also had to go through the entire thread to see if someone already suggested what i wanted to say. I was genuinely surprised no one did. Most people argued about the historical precedence of princess agency for marriages or had harder "yes"/"no" stances without much elaboration.
At least, unless i missed something.

Emperors have the highest fertility rates of all (which doesn't make sense in my mind but that's another discussion).

Not heard of that, but that would most certainly be a performance decision. Obviously we don't want to have as many AI characters of low rank just mass-producing babies that have no place to go and just causing a lot of additional calculations to be made that ultimately lead nowhere until they eventually fade out of the game.

Whether or not she would have "refused" the marriage to me in the first place I have no idea.

I think it is important to not make every asexual or homosexual character object to a marriage. They still know the role they have to fulfill - it's about whether they choose to give in rather than fight their family.
Same with a child already having a lover. They might just seek to continue that relationship despite being married and keep it in secret.

I'm not saying she shouldn't have had any kids (because I suppose that comes with the position and was an expectation) but 8 kids seemed a bit much

I mean, "marital duties" were a thing until only a few decades ago... (in a few western countries only very, very few decades ago - Germany had a parliament vote 1994 (if i recall correctly) about marital rape even being a crime at all - many conservatives voted "no" at the time.)

So the opinion maluses or consequences would only come up once the marriage is ready to go through, right? I fully agree with there being possible pushback to a marriage. My betrothals are often schemes to gain a temporary advantage and I have no intention of allowing many of my betrothals to go through so my dynasty members definitely don't need to overreact to those though the AI letting me break a 10th betrothal without serious consequences is a whole other issue. I'm just glad there's no Walder Frey in CK3.

In my opinion they shouldn't object to betrothals (since they will be children), but they might object once it comes to a marriage when they reach adulthood.
This just means that betrothals are slightly more risky, because you might antagonize your child or the other betrothed party, if your child grows to resent your decision.
What should happen more is you wanting to arrange a marriage, but if your child objects it is less severe because no alliances were ever forged that could have been taken advantage of. So you only get a minor opinion malus for of the "disappointed" or "insulted me" category, because your child insulted them by refusing to marry into their dynasty (or taking their member into yours) and you gave in and didn't exert your power to force the marriage anyway.

 

[Dread Og]

Not heard of that, but that would most certainly be a performance decision. Obviously we don't want to have as many AI characters of low rank just mass-producing babies that have no place to go and just causing a lot of additional calculations to be made that ultimately lead nowhere until they eventually fade out of the game.

Oh yeah it makes sense for the low ranked characters to have lower fertility. And maybe even a boost for the AI at higher ranks because the AI marries low fertility women and they probably need the extra help but it feels like overkill for the player when I have an Empress having 3 more kids from 40-46. I never take fertility traits like fecund and lustful and I honestly take maluses like Chaste but the only way to stop myself from having too many kids as Emperor is the "restraint" perk which I always take.

I guess I'm thinking of CK2's lower overall fertility (and higher death rate) where I'd sometimes find myself in more interesting succession scenarios where I might be desperately trying to have one kid or if my several kids died and I'm in poor health then a younger brother, sister, aunt or uncle who you never expected to rule might be your new character. I just thought those curveballs made CK2 more interesting than CK3's succession scenarios which are way too easy and predictable (for me at least). You can always pass the Empire off to the most prodigal child and having a strong and safe succession roster never comes into play like it did in CK2.

 

[schnizzle]

Don't worry, i also had to go through the entire thread to see if someone already suggested what i wanted to say. I was genuinely surprised no one did. Most people argued about the historical precedence of princess agency for marriages or had harder "yes"/"no" stances without much elaboration.
At least, unless i missed something.

Well I did say a few things that you later said as well. Your post was certainly much more coherent and better structured, but I think I had a few good ideas as well, some of which aren't too dissimilar to yours. Sure I leaned a bit more towards outright refusal than you did, but this comes mostly from a game play perspective as it would make the game more challenging. Completely refusing is of course ahistorical, but I think for both game play and also role play harsher negative consequences than just opinion maluses and more varied options and outcomes than just a small chance of eloping would be beneficial.

The big point I agree on here is that children should be able to refuse marriages. With a few caveats, though. If your daughter or son really loves you or has certain traits they might place their duty towards their parents/liege/realm over their own, without objecting.
If not, factors for accepting being betrothed to a stranger should be weighted against factors against. Attraction opinion towards their spouse and towards the player character forcing them to be betrothed should play a role. Age as well for extreme differences. If the betrothal is refused the parent/liege should have the option to overrule this refusal with a hook but that would have the dissadvantage of giving massive amounts of stress to the player character and a huge opinion malus and maybe a bad trait like melancholic as well as other debuffs to the betrothed. Maybe reduce fertility as to show the lack of attraction might lead to the marriage not being consummated. Also when looking for a partner for your daughter / son it would be cool if attraction opinion towards your child could be shown. Maybe the candidates could even be sorted by that value. I mostly play family-focussed characters that would like to wed their kids to partners they'd like. Having a large attraction score via similar traits and strong / attractive etc is often a larger factor for me than any other, but there's no option to look for it. If I'm already emperor of Europe and don't need any alliances anymore I'd just like my daughters and sons to be happy with their spouses.
And like OP said, daughters that are wed away and spouses really should play a larger role. An option for this could be that they communicate back home. Both for flavour and for mechanics there's a few options. They could spy on their husband or conspire with their husband to report false information to their family. They could also generate hooks on characters in both their husband's and parents' courts. Similar to the spymaster's disrupt shemes interaction, you could order your wife or one of your daughters (or maybe a high intrigue wife/daughter would do this herself) could search the court for characters conspiring against you, maybe using her attraction score to lure out a confession out of low-intrigue conspirators.

but the only way to stop myself from having too many kids as Emperor is the "restraint" perk which I always take.

You can always pass the Empire off to the most prodigal child and having a strong and safe succession roster never comes into play like it did in CK2.

These are two problems that really make my blood boil. Not being able to stop having children is completely idiotic. You don't need a perk to stop shagging, neither now nor in Charlemagne's time. And you shouldn't have to in game. If you think you have enough children, there's absolutely nothing forcing you to make more. The only problem is how to implement this and make it a fun or at least serviceable mechanic? Maybe a lustful character might try other options to avoid conception. Before there were condoms, people tried using pig bladders for that purpose. A character that has lustful or hedonist might want to try this or just pull out for a hefty piety malus. (obviously there's the question if you want to have events hinting to this in your game, but one can phrase these euphemistically) Maybe you can make the celibate option available for everyone, at least in a light version. It might trade fertility for the chance of getting a negative event that gives you loads of stress or the trait rakish because you really want to bang again. There's quite a few options. But as it is right now, a king or emperor that has realm division on just producing 5+ sons is stupid and I think the game handles this the wrong way by - as @Dread Og correctly stated - making succession too manageable. Just casually disinheriting everyone, even your first born, just because a later son has better traits and you want only one child to inherit is too arcady, unrealistic if not immersion-breaking and makes the game too easy. Disinheriting should come with much higher disadvantages. But this is straying way to far from the original topic, I'm sorry.

To conclude this, here's a few factors that should influence your child's acceptance to a betrothal:
age difference, attraction score towards target, maybe explicitly beauty health and intellect traits, opinion towards player character arranging the marriage, sexuality etc
The base for accepting any marriage should be quite high but if there's so much wrong with a match the child should have the option to complain and if the complaint is overruled and the betrothal maintained this shouldn't just be a hook and an opinion malus but much stronger consequences. If the parent is compassionate etc they should have a risk of getting stress or maybe even the melancholic trait, the child should have these risks anyway as well as a few others like lunatic and much lower fertility.

 

[SeraphAscending]

These are two problems that really make my blood boil. Not being able to stop having children is completely idiotic. You don't need a perk to stop shagging, neither now nor in Charlemagne's time. And you shouldn't have to in game. If you think you have enough children, there's absolutely nothing forcing you to make more. The only problem is how to implement this and make it a fun or at least serviceable mechanic? Maybe a lustful character might try other options to avoid conception. Before there were condoms, people tried using pig bladders for that purpose. A character that has lustful or hedonist might want to try this or just pull out for a hefty piety malus. (obviously there's the question if you want to have events hinting to this in your game, but one can phrase these euphemistically) Maybe you can make the celibate option available for everyone, at least in a light version. It might trade fertility for the chance of getting a negative event that gives you loads of stress or the trait rakish because you really want to bang again.

Agreed. The celibacy option should be available to everyone. For most characters it should massively reduce fertility and increased stress gain (except for chaste - fertility to 0% and no additional stress gain), but for lustful characters it should reduce fertility less and massively increase stress gain.

EDIT: here is my suggestion to remove basic action unlocks from the perk tree. It (among others) includes celibacy being available to all characters, but potentially stress-inducing and maybe less effective for lustful characters.

 

[child_of_air]

These are two problems that really make my blood boil. Not being able to stop having children is completely idiotic. You don't need a perk to stop shagging, neither now nor in Charlemagne's time. And you shouldn't have to in game. If you think you have enough children, there's absolutely nothing forcing you to make more. The only problem is how to implement this and make it a fun or at least serviceable mechanic? Maybe a lustful character might try other options to avoid conception. Before there were condoms, people tried using pig bladders for that purpose. A character that has lustful or hedonist might want to try this or just pull out for a hefty piety malus. (obviously there's the question if you want to have events hinting to this in your game, but one can phrase these euphemistically) Maybe you can make the celibate option available for everyone, at least in a light version. It might trade fertility for the chance of getting a negative event that gives you loads of stress or the trait rakish because you really want to bang again. There's quite a few options. But as it is right now, a king or emperor that has realm division on just producing 5+ sons is stupid and I think the game handles this the wrong way by - as @Dread Og correctly stated - making succession too manageable. Just casually disinheriting everyone, even your first born, just because a later son has better traits and you want only one child to inherit is too arcady, unrealistic if not immersion-breaking and makes the game too easy. Disinheriting should come with much higher disadvantages. But this is straying way to far from the original topic, I'm sorry.

That's okay, I don't really mind. It's been awhile since I responded to this thread, but I felt like there were so many good points raised!
Yes, it irritates me as well. Especially because I often play with beautiful characters, and my family dynasty is just out of control by the time the 3rd generation arrives. It goes from 1 person to over 80, depending on how many matrilineal marriages I make. I get frustrated when there are so many. I've been playing with a birth control mod rather than having to use the console to get myself the "celibate" trait, but I shouldn't have to. Nobody should! Celibacy was a thing people embraced all the time, even within marriage.

What you're saying is good in theory but in terms of actual gameplay I don't think the AI could be good enough to identify what a bad marriage actually is. I roleplay as an entire Dynasty and I'm making decisions for the good of the entire Dynasty. I'm capable of making fine distinctions that the AI is incapable of making when it comes to matchmaking.

Yeah, the AI choosing marriages for themselves is obviously not working out for them. I actually wrote a thread about how I feel sorry for the AI because they just become so pathetic, that I end up throwing them a bone despite the fact that it gets me nothing. Yet the issues build up as the game goes on, since the AI get worse and worse, and then you have a very very limited base of whom to choose for marriage. Should I marry my daughter to the Sadistic prettyboy drunk over in Germany, or the callous, lazy genius in France? Decisions, decisions. Ugh.

However I think you've come around to what I originally said- that refusal of marriage should be based on several factors, and those that are already in the game can be weighed with more weight and given more pull. It would be great if about 80 percent of betrothals went down, and the rest took some real planning.

Ultimately I want to be challenged. I want to feel like my family aren't just empty shells, and that they can think for themselves and have a will, outside of wanting to conquer lands or religious convictions. The AI needs work, and female players playing female characters get a bit tired of always being excluded from so many things.

 

[TheTobruk]

1. Daughters should have the ability to refuse perspective marriage partners.

Wholeheartedly agree. If your son or daughter is arbitrary or stubborn, or dislikes their parent, they should have the option to reject.

You could then sway them, use a hook to persuade them, or even make a new scheme - convince to marry selected candidate.

 

[Eheander]

Consent was certainly framed as a necessity for marriage, but this is where things get complicated. We today would frame "consent" as, well, consensual - individuals should be free from external pressures to conform and "play their part." For medieval marriages, this was not the case, and there were many ways to leverage social and familial pressures to drive someone to say "yes," and a strong culture of dynastic politics children were steeped in from birth in which marriages were political arrangements more than anything. This of course does not mean that rulers were blind to the fact that both prospective partners were going to have their own opinions, and that a reasonably acceptable match was important both to keep strife out of the ruling family and to ensure a, uh, "productive" union.

Mechanically, and without a massive change to the game's systems, this could be addressed in part by having marriage selection not just take into account traits. A preview of their respective opinions in the marriage selection screen, with very clear indicators on how this will effect the marriage and its prospects (will this improve the chance of having kids? Harm it? Are they going to try to stab each other as soon as possible?) could help the marriage process feel more like a process in which the prospective partners at least have a voice.


This is an excellent idea, making family networks feel like an important part of the game and showing how family members use their positions as power brokers and could either support or undermine their spouse.


In line with what I put forward above, making your direct family's relationships much more present and influential is an excellent idea, and again would make choosing partners that are actually amenable to each other so much more important.

I think that what op is suggesting in #1 makes sense in the context of the other things said in the post. Sometimes being required to use a Hook to get your daughter to accept a marriage would make sense and be quite cool if interactions between family members (both marriage and blood) had more power/were more interesting. I think that the dynamic you're talking about is already pretty well represented by the fact that house heads start with Hooks on their kids. Though as it stands rn adding that button wouldn't do anything mechanically; there currently isn't any other use for the House Head Hook on your daughters (which is part of the problem op is trying to address).

(I do think that having the button there would be a nice flavor thing though [even if it was added before any of the other stuff], as it would make the women in your family feel more like people whom you're using as a political tool, rather than them feeling like they are just political tools)

The vibe I'm getting reading through the comments here is "character relations that go beyond x person gives me money and military power Good"

ALSO, I wish landed AI sometimes requested a divorce, as that could be a HUGE deal in medieval politics. See how Eleanor of Aquitaine's shenaniganery kicked off the 100 years war between England and France

 

[FishieFan]

Wholeheartedly agree. If your son or daughter is arbitrary or stubborn, or dislikes their parent, they should have the option to reject.

You could then sway them, use a hook to persuade them, or even make a new scheme - convince to marry selected candidate.

Can we also beat them into marrying the person of our choice if we have the arbitrary or cruel trait?

 

[child_of_air]

Can we also beat them into marrying the person of our choice if we have the arbitrary or cruel trait?

Considering how much child abuse is in the world already, beating your kids hits a little bit too close to home. It's amazing how far off track this conversation has gotten, lol.

 

[FishieFan]

Considering how much child abuse is in the world already, beating your kids hits a little bit too close to home. It's amazing how far off track this conversation has gotten, lol.

In ck2 you could beat your kids if they opened and read your letters, refusing marriage seems like a far greater deal

 

[child_of_air]

In ck2 you could beat your kids if they opened and read your letters, refusing marriage seems like a far greater deal

I've never played CK2, so I cannot comment on that. But child abuse isn't really something I want to see implemented in the game personally.

 

[FishieFan]

I've never played CK2, so I cannot comment on that. But child abuse isn't really something I want to see implemented in the game personally.

Both of your children when under age and once theyve reached the age of consent? If you can torture your prisoners why not your disobedient children?

 

[GhostDanny]

I would like to be able to try and convince my female relative to "take one for the team".
Also, I would like to present her with a list of suitors for her to pick from that would help the House or Dynasty out.

Particularly cruel rulers might also forcefully marry a daughter to someone.