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Major Ballache

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Sorry if there is already a thread - but I couldn't find one.

Overall FTM is very good, but (inevitably) there are few things that could still do with tweaking so it make the transition from very good to aweseome.

Attack delay - it is very frustrating that any enemy unit entering a province can casue an entire armoured thrust grind to a halt for days. i.e a battle between four armoured divisons and an HQ or routing unit with zero org takes no time at all, the attacker suffers zero casualtioes yet still the attack delay kicks in.
Its also a gamey expliot when your defending - throw a soviet field kitichen into the path of Gudearian's panzers and its no blizkreig for you comrade.
Someone else suggested that any battle where the attacker wins within the first hour should not trigger the attack delay - I think that would solve the issue nicely.

Sealion way too easy - the Royal Navy is quite useless at protecting the british isles, preffering instead to swan around the far east. Meaning that germany can casually stroll accorss the channel without having to worry about the most powerful navy in the world. There was a reason the germans never attempted it in real life- the Royal Navy would have sunk the transports and left the invasion force high and dry.

AI and Expeditionary Forces The AI seems mad keen on dispacthing huge amounts of forces to its allies. I took over germany after a few years of playing USSR and found that half its forces were on loand to Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Italy and even Japan! At the same time, Germany had been loaned large amounts of Romanian infantry. I think this hobbles the AI as a co-ordinated fighting force - it makes sense that Germany would have command of its smaller allies forces, but not the other way around.

Too Easy to Sink Ships I think the rate at which ships get sunk has been tweaked too far. If you have a doctinre and hardware advantage you now seem to able to wipe out entire fleets in one egagement. Also ASW seems a lot less effective. Gemanys starting subs can utterly cripple the uk convoys on their own with only occasional aggro from the RN.

Allies declaring war even if Germany keeps to Munich Agreement We had a thread on this and it seems that unless you take all sorts of measures as Gemrany to avoid raising your threat (keeping small army, not firing any of the events) then the allies will DOW you in Jan 1940. This is quite frustrating from the 'what if' point of view, as their is no incentive for gemrany to bide its time and its also historically kind of wrong. UK and France were obviously keen to avoid war and if Hitler had kept to the munich agreement they would not have attacked him. Dont know how this can be fixed but it would be nice if it could.

Cheers - Im sure other players will add more suggestions.

And remember - lets keep it sensible, this is suggestions for a patch, not an expansion. Comletely reprogramming the AI is not gonner be feasible.
 
Last edited:

delra

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Signed!

Even though I think some of those won't be improved until the next addon - AI defence from naval invasions for one.
 

X_MasterDave_X

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Very good points! All of them.

Didnt knew, that it is so easy now to sink ships. In all my handsoff tests, the game usually ends in 1948, with just 10-12 Battleships sunk. In best case 1 Aircraft Carrier, and maybe 2-3 CVL. But Masses of other ships.

Are you sure, its to easy to sink CV´s and BB´s? And i dont mean for you.....how is it for the AI? Does they ever managed it to sink your bigger ships?
 

X_MasterDave_X

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...AI defence from naval invasions for one.

Hmmm. Depends on how this could be solved.

Is there any quick solution, somebody know about?
In my testgames, i see the Royal Navy very active sailing around UK, when war brakes out. But its true....after Japan gets active in Pacific, UK sends much away. Also for the mediterean when the war with Italy is in his hot phase.

But i heared, there is a AI command, that tells the AI what Sea or Land Provinces it should focuse. Maybe this arent the right ones, atm? Its afaik in the regions.txt file.
 

Major Ballache

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Very good points! All of them.

Didnt knew, that it is so easy now to sink ships. In all my handsoff tests, the game usually ends in 1948, with just 10-12 Battleships sunk. In best case 1 Aircraft Carrier, and maybe 2-3 CVL. But Masses of other ships.

Are you sure, its to easy to sink CV´s and BB´s? And i dont mean for you.....how is it for the AI? Does they ever managed it to sink your bigger ships?

No. I trash there's. Its more the speed at which they sink. Pre-patch is was quite hard to sink ships, but now I think its been tweaked too far.
 

delra

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quick solution

I noticed UK AI will be far more likely to react to an invasion by dispatching ships if there are radars built to cover ("highlight") the area around the isles. So if there's a radar covering all the major invasion targets, AI will dispatch ships when an invasion begins. If there's no radar, they just can't "see" there are ships trying to offload an invasion force in one of ports.

This still doesn't solve the whole problem of player landing next to a port, pretending it's not a big fat exploit and taking the port and the whole coast with tanks. For that second problem I would extend the time it takes to land outside of ports like 10-15x. So if you want to hit the beach, your navy will be spending whole Monday there open for attacks while units move. I see no reason why unloading tanks onto the cliffs should be so easy and fast as it is now.

Still, AI needs to treat coast as border with enemy if at least one enemy port is less than 3000km from their coast. To balance that out without ruining AI chances in other places (Japan in China, UK in Egypt) we need more than just a patch. This is whole AI philosophy at stake here.
 

X_MasterDave_X

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with all my handsoff tests i found out, that the AI usually guards all of its Harbours and VP Provinces, as long as it has enough troops. And thats the biggest problem in HoI3, that UK has just to few land units, and must defend a whole global empire. Whenever i gave them more troops, they tried to guard all Ports. Even with more then 1 Division, if they have enough for all harbours.

Problem since FtM is, that they start doing dangerous Invasions when they have enough troops, instead of staying home and defend.
But this is fixable from devs. They can tell the AI to be more aggressive or more defensive. But its hard to find the best ratio.
Best would be that UK is more careful until Barbarossa, and then when US Forces are availiable start to get more aggressive.

Btw, isnt it also to easy for Invaders like Germany, because their troops get 30 day of supply each one? What would happen, if Invasion Forces (or all Land Forces always) would only get supply for 7-14 days? Usually 30 days are enough to overrun England. Even if the Royal Navy would sink the whole german Fleet. But with just 1 week, the Invaders would starve fast. Then they would need convoi supply. Now it would be more important to defend the sea line, or the royal navy will sink, convoi after convoi. But i am not sure how the system works. Even when the RN sinks every day the convoi, would the supply arrive before? So the RN would need weeks or months until it has sunk all german convoi ships. Or would they get sunk fast, even in big numbers? Then the Invador wouldnt have much time to conquer all. And would have to defend the sea supply line.

Has anybody ever tested how barbarossa would be, if every unit has just supply for 1 week? Much more trouble?
Would like to integrate that in my future minimod i plan.

But would need some good numbers, or the balance will be completly screwed.
 

Major Ballache

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with all my handsoff tests i found out, that the AI usually guards all of its Harbours and VP Provinces, as long as it has enough troops. And thats the biggest problem in HoI3, that UK has just to few land units, and must defend a whole global empire. Whenever i gave them more troops, they tried to guard all Ports. Even with more then 1 Division, if they have enough for all harbours.

Problem since FtM is, that they start doing dangerous Invasions when they have enough troops, instead of staying home and defend.
But this is fixable from devs. They can tell the AI to be more aggressive or more defensive. But its hard to find the best ratio.
Best would be that UK is more careful until Barbarossa, and then when US Forces are availiable start to get more aggressive.

Btw, isnt it also to easy for Invaders like Germany, because their troops get 30 day of supply each one? What would happen, if Invasion Forces (or all Land Forces always) would only get supply for 7-14 days? Usually 30 days are enough to overrun England. Even if the Royal Navy would sink the whole german Fleet. But with just 1 week, the Invaders would starve fast. Then they would need convoi supply. Now it would be more important to defend the sea line, or the royal navy will sink, convoi after convoi. But i am not sure how the system works. Even when the RN sinks every day the convoi, would the supply arrive before? So the RN would need weeks or months until it has sunk all german convoi ships. Or would they get sunk fast, even in big numbers? Then the Invador wouldnt have much time to conquer all. And would have to defend the sea supply line.

Has anybody ever tested how barbarossa would be, if every unit has just supply for 1 week? Much more trouble?
Would like to integrate that in my future minimod i plan.

But would need some good numbers, or the balance will be completly screwed.

Yes I like the idea of restricting supplyto a week (or less). Many's the time I've had several armoured divisions wandering far into the russian steppes, totally cut off and suffering no penalities.
 

podcat

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Yes I like the idea of restricting supplyto a week (or less). Many's the time I've had several armoured divisions wandering far into the russian steppes, totally cut off and suffering no penalities.

30 day supply stockpile was one thing we planned to have a look at in the patch after many of the AI problems with supply were fixed but never had time to test properly for long term balance, so it was left as before. A big reason it is 30 days is to give ai enough time to correct such mistakes. It should be easy to experiment and mod the amount to see what effect it will have. check out the SUPPLYPOOL_DAYS variable in defines.lua. perhaps try 10 days for starters and pay attention how the ai deals with it afterwards? setting it too low will be a bad idea in case of of fluctuations in the supply net
 

whitewolfmxc

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only thing i ask is to add back in trade land amongest allies.(again keep the feature simple by using on map function like the thetre function as i hate the old system where i have to memories province names...).....im tired of Germany my ally taking my rightful italy lands lol
 

X_MasterDave_X

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30 day supply stockpile was one thing we planned to have a look at in the patch after many of the AI problems with supply were fixed but never had time to test properly for long term balance, so it was left as before. A big reason it is 30 days is to give ai enough time to correct such mistakes. It should be easy to experiment and mod the amount to see what effect it will have. check out the SUPPLYPOOL_DAYS variable in defines.lua. perhaps try 10 days for starters and pay attention how the ai deals with it afterwards? setting it too low will be a bad idea in case of of fluctuations in the supply net

ok...will do some tests. Was on my todo list anyway.
 

jackda

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30 day supply stockpile was one thing we planned to have a look at in the patch after many of the AI problems with supply were fixed but never had time to test properly for long term balance, so it was left as before. A big reason it is 30 days is to give ai enough time to correct such mistakes. It should be easy to experiment and mod the amount to see what effect it will have. check out the SUPPLYPOOL_DAYS variable in defines.lua. perhaps try 10 days for starters and pay attention how the ai deals with it afterwards? setting it too low will be a bad idea in case of of fluctuations in the supply net

We are testing 15 days supply in AS for several games now, it works well (in single player and multi).
 

codeman815

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AI and Expeditionary Forces The AI seems mad keen on dispacthing huge amounts of forces to its allies. I took over germany after a few years of playing USSR and found that half its forces were on loand to Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Italy and even Japan! At the same time, Germany had been loaned large amounts of Romanian infantry. I think this hobbles the AI as a co-ordinated fighting force - it makes sense that Germany would have command of its smaller allies forces, but not the other way around.

Yeah, that happened in my Swiss game (yes, I was playing Switzerland as Axis). The german southern front collapsed completely, and it was mainly composed of expeditionary forces to Romania. Up north, it was even more of a convoluted mess of various expeditionary forces. Now does an expeditionary force to a country drain the manpower of the receiving country, or the one who sent it? Because if it drains the receiving country, that would explain all the divisions completely void of manpower.

(note: how do i post a picture on this forum without leeching to show it? Don't want to get in trouble...)
 

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I noticed UK AI will be far more likely to react to an invasion by dispatching ships if there are radars built to cover ("highlight") the area around the isles. So if there's a radar covering all the major invasion targets, AI will dispatch ships when an invasion begins. If there's no radar, they just can't "see" there are ships trying to offload an invasion force in one of ports.

Let me just say: THIS

When the UK knows you are there, Sealion is a real pain. I can still do it (you can still tie up British ships in the Channel and bomb them with NAVs while you ferry units across), but you only really get one shot at it as the UK sinks everything and all your planes fight the Battle of Britain 2: Electric Bugaloo.

I know this because I did something stupid the last time I tried it, and caused half the RN to be sitting off the coast when I tried to take the beach. Their ships saw the transports and sent a ton of CAGs after them while Donnitz and the subs gave their lives to take out BBs and anything else they could see. It wasn't pretty.
 

SuiciSpai

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Too Easy to Sink Ships I think the rate at which ships get sunk has been tweaked too far. If you have a doctinre and hardware advantage you now seem to able to wipe out entire fleets in one egagement. Also ASW seems a lot less effective. Gemanys starting subs can utterly cripple the uk convoys on their own with only occasional aggro from the RN.

dont agree.

Its easy if one fleet has a tech advantage, but if not, you need to pursue them and make some skirmish to sink any ship
 

delra

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Jan 27, 2008
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Let me just say: THIS

When the UK knows you are there, Sealion is a real pain. I can still do it (you can still tie up British ships in the Channel and bomb them with NAVs while you ferry units across), but you only really get one shot at it as the UK sinks everything and all your planes fight the Battle of Britain 2: Electric Bugaloo.

I know this because I did something stupid the last time I tried it, and caused half the RN to be sitting off the coast when I tried to take the beach. Their ships saw the transports and sent a ton of CAGs after them while Donnitz and the subs gave their lives to take out BBs and anything else they could see. It wasn't pretty.

Yes, if it isn't possible to teach them to defend better from invasions - at least make AI build Radars along their whole coast so all ports are "highlighted". It really helps AI a lot and is very cheap to conduct for all major powers.Would make all the smug "I don't need a navy" dudes shut up. ;-)
 

unmerged(157847)

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Here is something I'd like to see: you know how when you look in the production screen and you can design divisions and you can see their combined stats for the entire division? I'd like to see at least some of those numbers once the unit has been placed on the map. For example, when I select a division, it would be nice to see the combined stats for that division (at least the four primary stats: hard, soft, defense, tough, maybe speed too). Similarly, when I select an entire corps (using the green bar on the HQ), it would be nice to see the combined stats for that corps. Yeah, I could memorize all of it, and I can look at the stats for each of the individual bgdes ... but it sure would be handy to see those numbers summarized.
 

borg1980

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I would like to see better air units handling by AI. During my last game as UK I have the nearly the same air power as Germany but they are doing not much to avoid my domination (I command manually my air units).
 

Cybvep

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May 25, 2009
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it would be nice to see the combined stats for that division (at least the four primary stats: hard, soft, defense, tough, maybe speed too). Similarly, when I select an entire corps (using the green bar on the HQ), it would be nice to see the combined stats for that corps. Yeah, I could memorize all of it, and I can look at the stats for each of the individual bgdes ... but it sure would be handy to see those numbers summarized.
Speed is already visible, but yeah, it's a good idea!