Suggestions for new Estuary and Important Center of Trade provinces.

[Demetrios]

Looks like a good idea on the whole, at least as far as North America and the Caribbean go. The big port cities of the time -- Havana, Philadelphia, Boston, Rio, and New York, did not become so by accident or caprice. They were excellent natural deep-water harbors, almost always on navigable rivers. They held immense value, and that value should be represented in-game. Perhaps they should not be important centers of trade, with the full +20 to trade power, but at least a +10 river estuary modifier would be appropriate. I don't really see "Estuary" in EU4 as requiring an actual estuary -- it's just a way of denoting the approximate mouth(s) of a navigable river without the various other factors that allowed or would have realistically allowed that province to become a major trading center.

Also, much as I love New York City, it did not become the dominant East Coast port until the opening of the Erie Canal, which gave New York City easy access to the Midwest and Canada via the Great Lakes. So it shouldn't be the only province with trade bonuses in the Chesapeake node, because that's just silly.

Perhaps for areas with deep-water harbors that are not technically estuaries of major rivers (like Boston or Havana), the wording could be "This province contains an excellent deep water harbor" instead of "This province controls the (river name) estuary", but still give the same bonus. That would actually probably be better than scattering around a whole bunch of "Important Centers of Trade" in unsettled areas. Perhaps something similar could be done for important but unsettled inland centers as well, like St Louis or Montreal "This province controls an important river confluence"

I definitely like this idea. It would give bonuses to non-settled provinces without them being "Important Centers of Trade", which does seem a bit over the top before they are settled.

 

[Demetrios]

There's a lovely new suggestion thread for suggestions.

Unless you're looking for more active feedback rather than putting forth a proper suggestion, you may wish to post there.

I'm honing the idea here, and then will post a finalized proposal there after a full discussion here!

 

[deezee]

Right now, the trade nodes that lack any provinces with bonuses are: Chengdu, Lhasa, Ohio, Philippines, Australia, Girin, Amazonas, Caribbean, Saxony, Patagonia and Panama.
Your suggestions cover Ohio, Australia, Philippines, Amazonas, Caribbean, Panama and Girin (sort of) so that leaves Chengdu, Lhasa, Saxony and Patagonia.

Just thought it would be kind of helpful for focusing further suggestions.

 

[Demetrios]

Right now, the trade nodes that lack any provinces with bonuses are: Chengdu, Lhasa, Ohio, Philippines, Australia, Girin, Amazonas, Caribbean, Saxony, Patagonia and Panama.
Your suggestions cover Ohio, Australia, Philippines, Amazonas, Caribbean, Panama and Girin (sort of) so that leaves Chengdu, Lhasa, Saxony and Patagonia.

Just thought it would be kind of helpful for focusing further suggestions.

I'll need to fire up the map and look into that. Although... Patagonia. I'm not sure what we can do there. The best I can think would be for Tierra del Fuego as it controls both the Straits of Magellan as well as the Drake Passage, but even that's a bit of a stretch...

 

[Emre Yigit]

What I really want is centers of trade to shift. A lot of CoTs weren't CoTs for most of the period. London, for instance, was by no means a bigger center of trade than Amsterdam until well into the 17th, maybe even the early 18th century (perhaps a DHE for the competition between the Netherlands and England to finish with one of the countries gaining decisive naval, colonial, and CoT bonuses over the other). AFAIK there are numerous trade posts like Goa, Macua, or an early Hong Kong which would never have been trade posts if they weren't owned by Europeans. It'd even be cool if estuary provinces in colonial areas only game their bonuses once most of the river had been colonized.

+1

And @Demetrios... out of retirement?

Also, has anyone considered the impact that the suggested trade centres would have given that trader numbers are assumed unchanged?

 

[petertel123]

Sorry about that, wrote the post in two sittings and forgot about your Lenape suggestion when I came back to it. Anyways, completely agree, the more the merrier.



Very true and Amsterdam did not become a major center of trade until after the sack of Antwerp by the Spanish and closure of the Scheldt estuary as part of the peace between Spain and the United Provinces.

after which antwerpen stopped being an important centre of trade

 

[Olligarchy]

Frankly I think that some regions like Lübeck already have far too many CoT's and Estuaries and would like to create a third (fourth if you count trade posts by Merchant republics) bonus for trade power. Maybe each nations principal Trade Port should have a small modifier like +3 TP or some such? Or you could invest into a certain coastal provinces to make it a CoT over a period of time?

 

[olm]

Imo there is no serious need to add CoT's to regions like Australia and Patagonia which were clear backwaters in trading.

 

[Demetrios]

+1

And @Demetrios... out of retirement?

Also, has anyone considered the impact that the suggested trade centres would have given that trader numbers are assumed unchanged?

I'm actually planning on editing the suggestions in and playing around for a bit to see how things are impacted (this is why I haven't put it on the formal "Suggestion" forum yet, I'm still taking feedback and then testing for a bit). It shouldn't effect merchants that much - we're not opening new trade regions, only adding bonuses to provinces within the established zones.

And I've always been around, but low-key. AoW fired me up though, since I really liked a lot of the changes.

 

[Demetrios]

Any other suggestions before I develop it until a full-blown proposal?

 

[Dorevai]

I don't like stuff like Gold Coast/Cape being unowned CoTs and therefore colonization races. That shouldn't be a thing. As trade develops along the Cape and Ivory Coasts, the dominant company in the region should get an event for a trade port wherever they've colonized. The East African stuff at least is operational already going in. Trade in Sub-Saharan Africa was focused on the interior until the Europeans arrived. Said event should basically move the CoT from Timbuktu to an owned coastal province.

I don't even really know why Cape needs a CoT. It's a joke to capitalize that node. Cape just makes it ezmode, and everyone rushes to grab it. Historically it was barely touched before the Dutch got around to it. That doesn't sound like a center of trade to me. Watch Cape in the bookmark selection, and witness it being ignored for centuries. The trick is the Zanzibar node, not the Cape node. The Portuguese and Spanish specifically targeted places rich in locals in Africa and America, but the game encourages you to colonize the least populous places in the early period. How do you trade with nobody? Obviously they were investing in places where goods were being produced because they couldn't magic entire provinces of their own people everywhere to do that for them like we can.

 

[solidprice]

Add more Estuary and Important Center of Trade provinces.

it means more conflict, more reasons to go to the new world, and a custom COP Americas have a ton of them.

 

[Demetrios]

OK, I've got my final draft for the Suggestion subforum ready, should be posting it sometime in the next day or so!