Suggestions for dealing with the ottomans late game

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

dawedqafdAD

Sergeant
Dec 31, 2020
74
205
I played England and payed no attention to the ottomans for most of my game, for a while we were somewhat close in military strength and with me and my allies combined they probably wouldn't mess with me. Recently though, the ottomans have become stronger, MUCH stronger. They have proclaimed the military hegemon and have a million manpower in the field and worse yet they're longstanding ally Russia sits at a comfortable 527k manpower in the field which is just shy of my 590k manpower fielded. Its become increasingly obvious that the ottomans will need to be dealt with as my recent conquests in Spain have left me dangerously close to the ottomans borders and they recently rivaled me (I also wouldn't mind owning Alexandria) But they're so much stronger then me. any suggestions are welcome.

Some basic stuff:
* I have a strong economy making around 650 ducats a month
* I am at miltec 25 and so are the ottomans
* I have 1 ally, Portugal who sits at roughly 250k in the field
* will provide screenshots if needed
 
Last edited:

zincpl

Sergeant
32 Badges
Mar 26, 2019
64
185
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
I'd be trying to separate russa first - either by allying them yourself or by attacking an ally of theirs. Then you want to ally anyone you can who'll help out (as dstractions). In the war, you can go for the straits but you prob don't need to - the AI doesn't know how to use quantity well - they'll prob have a death stack or two which you just want to avoid - you can use your naval superiority to move troops around or just keep a well-built army close together and use force march and reinforcemnets to beat them in a defensive fight in tough terrain. The AI is very timid on this patch too so you may never see half their army so long as you have superior quality.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

BadAssMilkDaddy

Corporal
Mar 24, 2020
33
72
Well first off, late game your pips should be significantly better than the Ottomans as a western nation. I think people initially get Ottoman shellshock and think that the Ottomans are strong all game. Their only strength lategame is their size, but by this point they've lost almost every one of their early game stat advantages. The stat advantage now belongs to you and you should try to push this stat advantage by, and I know this may sound crappy, destroying one or two of your old idea groups and replacing them with military ideas you haven't picked up yet. If you went colonial you may still have exploration/expansion. You can ditch those for something that really pushes your troops far beyond those of the Ottomans. You'd be surprised at how quickly lategame Ottoman armies can melt when at a discipline disadvantage. Plus, filling out the mil groups should be easy as you will be drowning in mil mana by this point of the game anyways.

As for the Russia situation; try to isolate them in a separate war if you can and break their alliance with the Ottomans, as someone else suggested. Or you could theoretically just fight them both. You'll have a pip advantage against eastern Europeans as well, albeit a smaller one. Anyways, good luck!
 
Last edited:
  • 5Like
  • 1
Reactions:

xrws31

Second Lieutenant
29 Badges
Aug 31, 2012
100
358
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Also, if you have to eat up alot of their land, you don't want to have to fight the same war multiple times. If you win the first war, make sure to fully occupy every province, reduce their manpower to zero, drive their war-exhaustion and devastation through the roof, let multiple rebellions spawn, and try to put them massively in debt. I mean, like, occupy every province and put a few units on each one for...... 5 years or more. Hopefully then they'll implode with other rivals declaring on them and rebels enforcing demands, then the next war will be significantly easier.
 

YellowPress

Lt. General
1 Badges
Apr 26, 2022
1.470
2.175
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
Also, if you have to eat up alot of their land, you don't want to have to fight the same war multiple times. If you win the first war, make sure to fully occupy every province, reduce their manpower to zero, drive their war-exhaustion and devastation through the roof, let multiple rebellions spawn, and try to put them massively in debt. I mean, like, occupy every province and put a few units on each one for...... 5 years or more. Hopefully then they'll implode with other rivals declaring on them and rebels enforcing demands, then the next war will be significantly easier.
Revanchism, tolérance, and massive culture group means such rebellions unlikeky
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:

xrws31

Second Lieutenant
29 Badges
Aug 31, 2012
100
358
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Revanchism, tolérance, and massive culture group means such rebellions unlikeky
I've definitely done it before where I've camped the Ottomons at full occupation, spawned a load of peasant/noble rebels and driven the autonomy in alot of their territory up to 100%, meaning they have no chance of recovering in time for next war.

But maybe that's just me, at this point the main enjoyment I get is in trolling the AI.
 

ancapailldorcha

Sergeant
66 Badges
Mar 31, 2020
78
92
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
I presume you're now Great Britain.

Your units will melt the Ottomans. The problem comes from the waves upon waves of men they can pump out. Make sure you've got a full line of infantry and a full backrow of artillery. If possible, keep a stack of infantry near any battle to judiciously reinforce.

Are you aiming for the Anglophile achievement? It's a fun one IMO.

My advice is to see who, if anyone will ally you against them to make a sizeable troop contribution. Hopefully, you've got Offensive and Quality ideas for the 5% discipline each. Adding Economic, a mediocre group will unlock a policy with Quality for a further 5%. Max absolutism plus an advisor will add another 10% total. If you're lucky, you'll get a ruler with another 5% and there's 5% in your national ideas.

The problem with an ally like Portugal and your colonial nations is that it takes forever for them to get their units together. The Ottomans by contrast hold a single congruous landmass for the most part. That said, I cannot overstate how weak their late game units are compared to any Western European nation. I think you'll be fine. If you're particularly worried, you can try and get Quantity ideas as well for that sweet, soon to be nerfed +50% force limit. A good trick can be to grab an island as the war goal and just hold it. Meanwhile, try and siege forts. Scorch earth when done and engage their armies there. As before, the problem is the sheer quantities of troops they have.

You've got this.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Methuen of Melnibone

First Lieutenant
28 Badges
Aug 3, 2020
250
418
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
I wouldn't bother, personally, but if you want to, some things to keep in mind -

1 - that starting manpower is very very misleading; they will increase their army size and available manpower for at least ten years in war. Expect to see at least three-times their starting manpower in any given conflict.
2 - attrition therefore matters nothing, don't waste time trying to play 'scorched earth'.
3 - don't bother trying to match their army size; troll them into mountain forts / islands / crossing / other defensible points to generate warscore via easy-er defensive battles.
4 - don't bother trying to be too clever with your armies; just stack numbers around those cheesy choke points.
5 - Unless you cheese them to death as other posters have laid out, expect that they will fully recover / usually have a bigger army for your next war; clay loss matters not to the Ottomans until they're down to about a dozen provinces.
6 - AI Allies WILL feed them armies bit-by-bit, and do nothing of value - they are most useful to let your armies get some carpet sieging in, so that when the AI peaces out, you can take your 70% warscore and run
7 - dependong on how their borders are, be prepared for that million-man army to appear in your rear at some point, having marched across all of Germany/North Africa /Russia/China.
8 - mercenaries are uselss (no artillery) - only good to carpet siege / interdict small stacks
9 - you should be fine as GB, but the Ottoblob can build ginormous all-heavy or all-galley navies that come as a nasty shock. Make sure you send a proper grand fleet if you're doing the navy thing !

10 - make a copy of your save files, so that if the AI just Ottomans all over you, you can carry on your game elsewhere :)
 

petertju

Major
32 Badges
Feb 16, 2017
734
867
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
8 - mercenaries are uselss (no artillery) - only good to carpet siege / interdict small stacks
Nitpicking this one: mercs are not useless in gigawars. Just don't use them as single stacks. Use them as a follow up stack to a battle. When the frontline of your first army collapses, the mercs infantry will be on the front line.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

YellowPress

Lt. General
1 Badges
Apr 26, 2022
1.470
2.175
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
I wouldn't bother, personally, but if you want to, some things to keep in mind -

1 - that starting manpower is very very misleading; they will increase their army size and available manpower for at least ten years in war. Expect to see at least three-times their starting manpower in any given conflict.
Agreed, sources are slacken professionallism, general manpower recovery in ideas, janissaries being free 1k men for 10 mil
2 - attrition therefore matters nothing, don't waste time trying to play 'scorched earth'.
Scorched earth can be good at slowing them coming through
3 - don't bother trying to match their army size; troll them into mountain forts / islands / crossing / other defensible points to generate warscore via easy-er defensive battles.
You might be able to out cannon them with how current ai works
4 - don't bother trying to be too clever with your armies; just stack numbers around those cheesy choke points.
5 - Unless you cheese them to death as other posters have laid out, expect that they will fully recover / usually have a bigger army for your next war; clay loss matters not to the Ottomans until they're down to about a dozen provinces.
I wouldn't say a dozen, if you can strip syria and Egypt from them, then austria whos annexed Hungary and russia might be able to start successful wars
6 - AI Allies WILL feed them armies bit-by-bit, and do nothing of value - they are most useful to let your armies get some carpet sieging in, so that when the AI peaces out, you can take your 70% warscore and run
This is why you set your armies to attach and set war goals, this prevents allies wondering to crimea whilst youre in greece
7 - dependong on how their borders are, be prepared for that million-man army to appear in your rear at some point, having marched across all of Germany/North Africa /Russia/China.
As britain his homeland is pretty safe provided naval supremacy, and always leave forts in homeland left turned on
8 - mercenaries are uselss (no artillery) - only good to carpet siege / interdict small stacks
Mercenaries are great due to additional manpower pool, as thats the one place players tend to fail vs ottos
9 - you should be fine as GB, but the Ottoblob can build ginormous all-heavy or all-galley navies that come as a nasty shock. Make sure you send a proper grand fleet if you're doing the navy thing !
Naval combat width also important to remember, especially with how admiral manœuvre increases combat width
10 - make a copy of your save files, so that if the AI just Ottomans all over you, you can carry on your game elsewhere :)
Backups every new session always recomended agreed
 

The Macedonian

Private
Aug 4, 2022
11
18
I suppose your greatest advantage is that they can't reach your power bases, but takin them on while they are Military Hegemon is just nuts.

+ 20% Siege Ability (relevant to their speed in reclaiming clay)
- 3 National Unrest
- 20% Land Attrition
- 0.1 War Exhaustion

I'd recommend a prep war of some kind to split Russia from them. Next, you'll want to be able to blockade all their coasts and give yourself freedom of movement. I'd also try to use their size against (and lack of navy) by sieging down far away outposts first -- maybe north africa somewhere or distant arabia -- that will bait them into moving stacks away from the straights, then try to decapitate them by blocking the straights. From there, maybe you could build some warscore in the balkans and get Constantinople and Gallipoli in the peace. Your first war might need to be a trade war just to sweep the seas clear of their ships.

In my experience, if you can cut them (or anyone) in half like that, you can lean on them until they fall over. But, man 1M+ men and all the bonuses of Military Hegemon and Russia for an ally -- ouch.
 

brifbates

Field Marshal
93 Badges
Mar 4, 2004
10.614
2.227
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
+ 20% Siege Ability (relevant to their speed in reclaiming clay)
- 3 National Unrest
- 20% Land Attrition
- 0.1 War Exhaustion

None of these really matter all that much in a late game war against the Ottomans. With the ai always using the Dhimmi privilege unrest isn't much of a thing for them, and attrition is a joke. You win the war by slagging armies and winning sieges quickly which is all about your stats, not theirs. Slagging their armies shouldn't be a problem even with their massive numbers because, as was previously mentioned, late-game western troops take a dump on everyone else. Unless they took multiple army quality groups (off, def, qua) and you didn't then at equal tech and numbers you'll crush them.