Suggestion

[unmerged(18477)]

I think, it's good idea to make special events for growing power of different classes.
For example, i built court, brewery or other economical structures(its meaning that economical power of towns are growing) . So i have a chance that happens event in that power of burghers are grown up.
If i built castle, palace or other structure for nobles, then power of nobles can grow.
And so on for clerics(churches, cathedrals) and may be peasants(fishing wharf, forestry) but in smaller scale

Then during the game as AI and player advance their cities, the power of burghers and nobles power will rise and power of peasants will fall, as it was in real history.

 

[Nikolai]

Doesn't sound too bad that one. Good idea!

 

[Spruce]

I think, it's good idea to make special events for growing power of different classes.
For example, i built court, brewery or other economical structures(its meaning that economical power of towns are growing) . So i have a chance that happens event in that power of burghers are grown up.
If i built castle, palace or other structure for nobles, then power of nobles can grow.
And so on for clerics(churches, cathedrals) and may be peasants(fishing wharf, forestry) but in smaller scale

Then during the game as AI and player advance their cities, the power of burghers and nobles power will rise and power of peasants will fall, as it was in real history.

I don't understand totally your proposal.

In the game those buildings give already a bonus to loyalty - in fact it just means you can tax them more - until you reach some nasty things like revolt.

 

[NeilJT]

I don't understand totally your proposal.

In the game those buildings give already a bonus to loyalty - in fact it just means you can tax them more - until you reach some nasty things like revolt.

I think he is suggesting new events along the lines of:

"The presence of a brewey has increased the power of the Burghers in this province"

"Its is the march of progress"
Burgher power +0.2

----

"Our people are spoken to through the church in this province"

"It is right they should hear the word of the lord"
+0.2 clergy power

etc...

 

[unmerged(36722)]

that is a good idea, would it end up making revolts more possible later in the game? I'm not clear as to how often revolts happen with the peasant loyalty really low....

 

[unmerged(6777)]

*nods*

Byakhiam now has another task.

 

[caknuck]

Why not add a few more events to reduce loyalty, too?

--

"The clergy blames your brewery for the sins of your drunken subjects."

Clergy loyalty -0.05

--

(Forestry)
"Several titled gentlemen are upset that lumberjacks have started felling trees in their favorite hunting grounds."

Noble loyalty -0.10

--

etc...

 

[richvh]

A few more loss of province improvement events could be added as well

• province looted, in revolt, disease ridden, ruler lazy: "Roads have fallen into disrepair due to lack of maintenance", loss of roadnet/extensive_roadnet/royal_post
• province looted, in revolt, at war: "Your palace has been sacked", loss of grand_palace
• ruler lazy, not at war: "Neglect of repairs causes castle wall to fall", loss of highest level castle.

I'm sure others could be suggested. The only events I can recall as having happen to me to remove improvements (other than bankruptcy and usury events) have been for the fishery, forestry, sawmill and court of justice.

 

[NeilJT]

I just had another idea..

"Thanks for the brewery mate - its fantastic... I mean, really, really great. You're the best liege in the world, you are... Oh! Is that a Kebab?"

Peasant loyalty +0.1

 

[Grosshaus]

Can´t we just add those effects to the provincial prosperity ones?

For instance now towns and hamlets growing is more likely if you have commercial techs and good stewardship. If we add some modifiers for commercial buildings (and reduce mtth or other factors to not make them happen all that much more often) and give it an extra effect of improving burgher power. Same effect, no extra events to drain cpu usage.

 

[unmerged(18477)]

Can´t we just add those effects to the provincial prosperity ones?

For instance now towns and hamlets growing is more likely if you have commercial techs and good stewardship. If we add some modifiers for commercial buildings (and reduce mtth or other factors to not make them happen all that much more often) and give it an extra effect of improving burgher power. Same effect, no extra events to drain cpu usage.

May be. But prosperity and development of towns are not the same. I mean that if you build mostly economical structures then burghers become more important (as it was in history), if you build mostly feudal buildings then power of nobles grow and so on.

I am reading very good historical book about Kievan Rus. And there is shown that when russian cities developed, burghers and nobles power grow nearly all the time and peasants become less important. I think same situation was in most Europe. I think in the end of 14 century there were not places with classes power 25%/25%/25%/25%. Most power got burghers and nobles during the medieval and i think such trend should be in CK

 

[Grosshaus]

May be. But prosperity and development of towns are not the same. I mean that if you build mostly economical structures then burghers become more important (as it was in history), if you build mostly feudal buildings then power of nobles grow and so on.

Of course, luckily that´s possible to do. There are already separate rural and urban development events that can be separated for the latter to raise burgher power and the former noble or peasant. Perhaps some new events are needed to separate them though.

If you check the province_power_events file you´ll see that there already are several events that affect powers and loyalties and the mtths depend on there being some buildings. The same thing shouldn´t be around twice, if the same can be achieved with these events, or perhaps with them a bit altered, then it´s better to do it so.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Well personally i think its better to link it to the month changes for province imporvements instead because most of these changes were gradual, plus it doesn't increase the cpu load nearly so much as checking for tons of events.

The problem comes figuring out first if we can have these improvements cause monthly increases in power (should be possible), figuring out which ones should affect what increases and decreases in power (FE: Castles might increase nobility, but at who's expensse usually, same with Catherdrals, etc.

And we need a few for peasants as well.

 

[Grosshaus]

The problem comes figuring out first if we can have these improvements cause monthly increases in power (should be possible), figuring out which ones should affect what increases and decreases in power (FE: Castles might increase nobility, but at who's expensse usually, same with Catherdrals, etc.

I´d rather not go there, it would require a piece of completely new code to be made by Johan to get an effect that can be scripted via events by us just as well.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

I´d rather not go there, it would require a piece of completely new code to be made by Johan to get an effect that can be scripted via events by us just as well.

I disagree. Not with the fact that it can't be done, but that it can be done as well.

Rememeber these changes took decades, even centuries in areas, almost exclusively by gradual change, to take effect. The event system would do it in fits and starts. Plus the CPU load imo would be worse than the monthly changes.

True, Johan may haveto do some new code, but this isn't like reworking the crusades. The underlying structure is already there. I mean we can already change loyalty by monthy changes.

 

[Disturbman]

I agree with Jinnai on the whole thing.

 

[unmerged(40814)]

I love the ideas here, but would just like to see these effect loyalty exclusively and not power..There are already a ton of events that effect power but it seems like -loyalty events are rather far and few between...with all the possible monthly +loyalty effects available, I'm very surprised if I have a territory that I've held for a while at anything less than 100/100/100/100 (unless they are revolting)

It might make it a bit more involving to have to modify your power settings to counteract the clergy loyalty hit you take if you get hit with the brewery event for example.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

I love the ideas here, but would just like to see these effect loyalty exclusively and not power..There are already a ton of events that effect power but it seems like -loyalty events are rather far and few between...with all the possible monthly +loyalty effects available, I'm very surprised if I have a territory that I've held for a while at anything less than 100/100/100/100 (unless they are revolting)

It might make it a bit more involving to have to modify your power settings to counteract the clergy loyalty hit you take if you get hit with the brewery event for example.

But again, there shouldn't be a 'hit' because a change from something like building a brewery, except for its initial completion wouldn't be appropriate 99.9% of the time. These changes as i said were almost exlusviely gradual. Plus the addition is not as hard as adding a Shiite religion, FE, or even as much as having both stewadship and intrigue modify demesne bonus. Most of the code is already there.

That doesn't mean there weren't massive and sudden shifts in power, but they weren't from the effects of buildings. Right now you can't have a gradual change in power shifting, completely historic and not unbalancing game-wise, and it wouldn't require tons of coding and might be able to save CPU load and perhaps, but unlikely, some of the power shifting events could be scrapped now to ease the stress the CPU now has with this effect.

 

[Grosshaus]

Plus the addition is not as hard as adding a Shiite religion, FE, or even as much as having both stewadship and intrigue modify demesne bonus. Most of the code is already there.

Actually I´ve heard that the stewarship/intrigue thing was just changing a single number/word in the code to link it to intrigue instead of stewardship. 30 seconds.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Actually I´ve heard that the stewarship/intrigue thing was just changing a single number/word in the code to link it to intrigue instead of stewardship. 30 seconds.

I meant how some wanted both stewardship and intrigue to modify it at the same time, not one or the other.