Suggestion: Tribal Succession Crisis: Migration

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Puking Panda

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As noted in the previous dev diaries, when a Monarchy has a succession crisis one of the ways you could deal with the pretenders is by giving the pretender and his army money and turn them into a mercenary band instead.

I was thinking that it would be pretty nice and historically accurate as well if a similiar feature could be used for a Tribal country if they have their own version of a succession crisis or a civil war that, instead of them splitting off their provinces or fighting agianst you, you can instead pay them off with a "Make migrating horde" option. This will turn unhappy pops, as well as pops whose province governors are disloyal along with all dissatisfied characters, their junior family members(fathers taking their wife and kids) and retinues, into a new country that is a migrating horde who have a truce with their home nation and which will then move away, leaving your provinces intact but possibly deserted with a large portion of their pops gone.

This way you could simulate many of the migrations that historically happened such as those done by the Senones and Boii when they moved to Italy, Galatians as they invaded Greece/Anatolia, the Cimbrians/Teutons or those done by the Suebi when they migrated to Gaul.

Extra features could for example be when they cross into same culture-group countries these countries can either declare war, give military access or contribute their own unhappy populace/characters + retinues to the horde along Military Access. As the horde passes more countries the migrating Horde could swell enormously and can create substantial invasion force. The AI should have the propensity to move to more civilized countries in particular and declare war on them, and AI countries that get passed through should have a greater likelihood to contribute to the horde if the horde's leader has a high oratory skill.

Other features could be giving the player the option to switch faction to this new horde when it's created, giving the horde extra money for more troops, buying the horde off as a civilized republic/kingdom or giving them one or multiple provinces and making them a Feudatory(only if they're weak), possibly as part of a peace deal.
 

Wavey

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That's actually a pretty cool suggestion. I like the idea that competing claimants could (if bribed) split off their part of the tribe to form a new entity. Obviously the new splitting-off tribe wouldn't be able to keep the original name, which raises the question of whether they should then be named after the ruler and his family or something else.
 

Puking Panda

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That's actually a pretty cool suggestion. I like the idea that competing claimants could (if bribed) split off their part of the tribe to form a new entity. Obviously the new splitting-off tribe wouldn't be able to keep the original name, which raises the question of whether they should then be named after the ruler and his family or something else.
In the case of the Senones, Lingones, Cenomani and Boii these tribes kept their name when they settled in Italy while their old tribe kept it's name in Gaul and Bohemia. This currently results two different variations of the same tribal name in the game:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-29th-of-october-2018-italy-450-auc.1125966/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...development-diary-28-of-january-2019.1148646/
Gallic Senones/Lingones = Senonia/Lingonia
Italian Senones/Lingones = Senonii/Lingonii

Not sure how dynamic the countries are in the game, if they are EU 4-like dynamic(which I am guessing it is considering the civil war mechanic) what they could maybe do is like give each country 3 different name variants like Senones/Senonia/Senonii and just scroll through these and give each country a different color pallet. You might still have multiple countries with the same name but it's unlikely and most migrating nations probably won't last that long anyway.
 

Wavey

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In the case of the Senones, Lingones, Cenomani and Boii these tribes kept their name when they settled in Italy while their old tribe kept it's name in Gaul and Bohemia. This currently results two different variations of the same tribal name in the game:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...y-29th-of-october-2018-italy-450-auc.1125966/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...development-diary-28-of-january-2019.1148646/
Gallic Senones/Lingones = Senonia/Lingonia
Italian Senones/Lingones = Senonii/Lingonii

Not sure how dynamic the countries are in the game, if they are EU 4-like dynamic(which I am guessing it is considering the civil war mechanic) what they could maybe do is like give each country 3 different name variants like Senones/Senonia/Senonii and just scroll through these and give each country a different color pallet. You might still have multiple countries with the same name but it's unlikely and most migrating nations probably won't last that long anyway.

They use the '-ia' suffix as standard to avoid a lot of grammatical issues so I don't think they'd be keen to go down the -es -ii route. As for having two 'Senonia' for instance, I think the issue there is coding it so that what happens to one doesn't happen to the other and other stuff like that.
 

Puking Panda

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They use the '-ia' suffix as standard to avoid a lot of grammatical issues so I don't think they'd be keen to go down the -es -ii route. As for having two 'Senonia' for instance, I think the issue there is coding it so that what happens to one doesn't happen to the other and other stuff like that.
Countries are defined by their tags first and foremost. Names are just text, things like events, army ownership and stuff like that all target's the country's tags. I haven't tried it yet but I am pretty sure EU 4 lets you create different client states with the same name.

Basically Teutonia defined by the tag TEU. When they split they would, according to my idea at least, create the country Teutonii with the tag D00. If they split once agian they create the country Teutones with the tag D01. When they(or their children factions) split up once agian they will create the country Teutonia with the tag D02 and so on.

https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Country_tags

Imperator evidently borrows alot of it's underlying engine from EU 4 so I am guessing this will be the system they work with.
 

Vityviktor

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I like it. Also, leaving your land and starting a migration could be the result of a defeat in a war, civil or not. This could lead to some interesting situations. In any case, a semi-random tag system (maybe based on the existing clans) should be needed.
 

Puking Panda

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I like it. Also, leaving your land and starting a migration could be the result of a defeat in a war, civil or not. This could lead to some interesting situations. In any case, a semi-random tag system (maybe based on the existing clans) should be needed.
Players can already do this, if you are a tribe you can convert your pops into a light infantry cohort(with a pop attached) and move them into an owned or unoccupied province. There could be some triggers for the AI if they live next to a dangerous threatening neighbor to turn their pops into migrants and get out of their current predicament, something that also happened frequently historically, most famously with the Goths when they were faced by the Huns.
 

Traum77

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Yeah I like this idea too. I think natural pushes to migrate (such as civil war, threatening neighbors, etc.) could really help turn the migration mechanic into a dynamic part of the game, especially in highly tribal parts of the map (eventually hitting the higher civilization nations too).
 

Vityviktor

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There could be some triggers for the AI if they live next to a dangerous threatening neighbor to turn their pops into migrants and get out of their current predicament, something that also happened frequently historically, most famously with the Goths when they were faced by the Huns.

I really wish the Devs could take note and make these triggers. :p
 

Will Steel

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Someone should start cataloguing these great ideas so that someone, either via mods or official DLCs, put them into the game in future.