If you want to change the distribution of the population, you can perhaps check one of the maps in my signature. Unless there is a value in misc.txt which allows to scale globally the output of each point of mp on the map (much easier)
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That's exactly my point. Why doesn't represent it in game with nation specific units, techs and bonuses? This would be one way of making AI USSR stronger than right now for example. And it would make things harder for Germany because they production time, and costs of tanks would be longer and more expensive than of the alies, and SU.
And i'm not talking about making this 'tinny' things shown, like frequent malfuncitons you mentioned, but represent it with higher cost/time of repair/reinforcements for Germans, comparing to SU or alies.
And it's always possible to make 'full tech tree' option for those who want something else.
The overall (I'm not considering its fighting ability only) superiority of the T-34 is more or less a myth. I've never seen such a successful tank destroyed in such insane numbers.
Before people start jumping on me
please consider this example:
20000 warriors armed with spears attacking 1800 colonial troops armed with state-of-the-art Martini-Henry breech-loading rifle and some artillery, and slaughtering them. Spears are rustic, easy to fix on the field; I would not say that they are superior to the rifles.
It was the same problem, even if certainly not at the same scale, between the German and the Russian tanks. The Russian needed more tanks than the German to achieve the same result.
In my opinion, if you start to consider this level of accuracy, you will quickly break the balance of the game because of unsuspecting side-effects.
Before people start jumping on me
please consider this example:20000 warriors armed with spears attacking 1800 colonial troops armed with state-of-the-art Martini-Henry breech-loading rifle and some artillery, and slaughtering them. Spears are rustic, easy to fix on the field; I would not say that they are superior to the rifles.
It was the same problem, even if certainly not at the same scale, between the German and the Russian tanks. The Russian needed more tanks than the German to achieve the same result.
In my opinion, if you start to consider this level of accuracy, you will quickly break the balance of the game because of unsuspecting side-effects.
It was superior in three main ways - first of all, it was damn cheap. The Soviets didn't need to care about how well they are using the T-34 because it was so damn cheap to produce that they could make tens of thousands of them (compare only 1,300 Tigers or 5,700 PzIII). Secondly, the main advantage of the T-34 was its absolutely revolutionary sloped armor. No one had thought about it before. No German tank had sloped armor before the Panther which was a direct rip-off of the T-34. While a good tank it was still too expensive and difficult to produce to make an impact on the war. Furthermore, when the Germans attacked USSR in '41 German tank crews complained that their guns could not penetrate the T-34 from the front. Remember that this was well before the Tiger and the Panther. T-34 also had very advanced optics for its time which as a (former) tank gunner I can say matters very much.
The Soviets lost insane amounts of tanks to all sorts of pointless fights, but that was because Soviet tank crews were often poorly trained and intentionally sacrificed to buy time, scare the enemy or just for the hell of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34#Combat_experiences_of_June_1941
If we look on paper on T34 and KW-1 and it's German enemies in 1941 there should be no possibility for Germans to advance at all.
But we have to remember that Darkest Hour is not World of Tanks. We are not talking about tanks only.
Giving one unit even 4 points more in let's say hard attack will probably be unfair as this game operates at different level of abstraction. I know that this sound weird but tank divisions were not only made of tanks.
If we will make T34 superior at it's German counterpart then we will have to make German AA attachment superior over Soviet AA attachment (88 mm Flak). Then we would have to remember that Soviets concentrated on artillery as well so we would have to favour Soviet artillery at some point. The list would go on and on and on...
Changes like this would be possible when balancing only Eastern Front but we have tens of possible conflicts here and it is impossible to make it accurate in every condition.
But we have to remember that Darkest Hour is not World of Tanks. We are not talking about tanks only.
Giving one unit even 4 points more in let's say hard attack will probably be unfair as this game operates at different level of abstraction. I know that this sound weird but tank divisions were not only made of tanks.
If we will make T34 superior at it's German counterpart then we will have to make German AA attachment superior over Soviet AA attachment (88 mm Flak). Then we would have to remember that Soviets concentrated on artillery as well so we would have to favour Soviet artillery at some point. The list would go on and on and on...
Changes like this would be possible when balancing only Eastern Front but we have tens of possible conflicts here and it is impossible to make it accurate in every condition.
To push this argument to its extreme, I could say that spears are cheap too, as well as Shermans. The Russians had to fight on only on front, while the German were never able to focus all their industrial power against a single enemy. The only comparaison possible would be with the same industrial output, opposing a cheap but numerous T-34 against a more expensive but better designed panzer.
Agreed. That is one advantage. You can add its diesel engine (winter) and wider tracks (mud).
The soviets had commissionned 3000 T-34 by December 41. If the German crew couldn't penetrate the T-34 from the front, how is it possible that they had not been stopped much earlier. Were the German utterly doctrinal genius, or the soviets totally stupid? Or was it because of flaws in the design of the T-34? I didn't serve in the tanks, but I am surprised to learn that the T-34 had good optics. This was certainly not a deep area of expertise of the Russians, as opposed to the German which were world leader with Zweiss. Also the angle of fire of the T-34 (less than 5 degrees IIRC) didn't allow it to be successful on a slope or at close range. No radios. And a 2 men turret (1 driver, 1 commander+gun aimer+firer) Even if the last one was very well trained, he was at a severe disadvantage compared to the 3 men turret on the German side (a nightmare if he was also a platoon leader).
One year after the beginning of Barbarossa, almost 80% of the losses of T-34 had been caused by german weapons whose calibers ranged from 20mm to long 50mm, IE standard issue of 41-42 German tanks and AT. Which meant that they were able to fire from very close distance, or in the the vulnerable parts. Which also meant that the T-34 had not been able to defend themselves because they couldn't see the attackant. All of this means that the design of the T-34 was seriously flawed.
Based on what I wrote before, I think exactly the opposite.
Or to be more accurate, just one against one, the T-34 had a good chance. Formation against formation, the T-34s would have been smashed, not only because of the difference of doctrines, but because the T-34 would have had the tendency to concentrate their fire where their leaders were attacking, while the Germans would have manoeuvered and applied a much better fire control.
True. German tanks towards the end of the war became increasingly inferior because they were built from cheap materials and were full of flaws. The first Panther attack at Kursk, for example, many broke on their own before encountering the enemy. Tiger II was also full of technical flaws and due to its size was very prone to errors (I was in a 27 ton tank (IFV to be precise) and it had its fair share of engine failures)
Penetrating on the front is not much a problem if you got maneuver. The Germans went on their flank and shot them from the sides. That's what the Soviets did to heavier German tanks. Germans also had air superiority for most of the war and the Soviet were just too disorganized to put up a fight. German tank crews themselves complained that their guns were too weak and I'm inclined to believe them. T-34 also earned praise from German generals which is something for Soviets.
You are right on the radio and crew size. Having no radio was a huge mistake.
I didn't know about the optics either before I looked it up. However, Soviets did make several breakthroughs in tank design. For example, the gun stabilizer (an absolute must in modern tanks) was first used in the T-55 and quickly copied to the West. IFV's are also Soviet design, though they have fallen behind their Western counterparts.
The overall (I'm not considering its fighting ability only) superiority of the T-34 is more or less a myth. I've never seen such a successful tank destroyed in such insane numbers.
Before people start jumping on me
20000 warriors armed with spears attacking 1800 colonial troops armed with state-of-the-art Martini-Henry breech-loading rifle and some artillery, and slaughtering them. Spears are rustic, easy to fix on the field; I would not say that they are superior to the rifles.
It was the same problem, even if certainly not at the same scale, between the German and the Russian tanks. The Russian needed more tanks than the German to achieve the same result.
In my opinion, if you start to consider this level of accuracy, you will quickly break the balance of the game because of unsuspecting side-effects.
What are those unsuspecting side-effects, could you give me some example, because i'm maybe not seeing this from right angle?
But all in all, even if we put aside first part of my suggestion regarding units, the second one, regarding tehcs would still be 'in the game' so to say. There would be specific techs for tank formation (or armored units in general) for the Germans that would give them some superiority over their enemies, in this particular issue. In some other issues, alies and SU would have been superior (like already mentioned shorter production speed for the tanks for them etc).
Well, I think it´s all in the game already.
GER has better starting land doctrines, giving them more ORG (staying power in game terms) and reduction in build cost of tanks and SPA, and better tech teams.
Allied have shorter building times due to free market policy slider.
SOV have more LARM techs researched at the start of 1936 scenario and quite capable tech teams regarding tank techs.
Yes, but GER with extra ORG is, as i recall for all units, not just tanks, and it's just not the same. The free market policy doesn't work well for SOV, because thery are central planning nation, and they also produced tanks (and everything else) much faster than GER.
Besides, land doctrine itself (in this particular case) isn't only thing that determines strength of certain units.
Basically this.
The entire balance of the game is built between production/technologies/doctrine/policies/GDE/unit values. If one starts meddling radically with one component, he will have to expect lots of side effects. It is like opening Pandora box and realising that this requires to modify all the units. I don't have specific example, that is just my gut feeling.
I´m frequently playing darkest hour. It´s a great game however if you want to improve here are some suggestions from a player with long experience. However wasn´t active in this forum so far :
- Peace offers: Long lists of regions are not readable e.g. when China makes peace proposals to Japan in the late thirties. The same is true when you make a peace proposal and want to offer/claim regions. Instead of having an endless list of regions I would offer a map to the player where he can click on regions he wants to offer or claim or sees the offer another country on a map. Would make things much easier for me.
- Tech: Tech teams are more or less static. This is frustrating esp. when you are playing a middle power e.g. Argentina or Romania and play successfully and start to conquer parts of your neighbours or even big neighbours. I would create some bonus/malus system linked to your power/industrial capacity. Once you have reached a certain economic power by conquest or building industry I would increase industrial research capabilities a bit. When you are in frequent wars I would increase capanilities of officers/military equipment. When you are doing constant research in Aerotech and build aircrafts etc. i would increase this reasearch capacity.
- Tech: Implement base technologies that effect all types of units within one research area. E.g. once you developed a turbojet interceptor and you are in the late 40s and want to develop a fighters you have to do all the little development steps that base on older technoly until you get a proper fighter design even though crucial tech. breakthrough already have been achieved. I would suggest once you develop a technology to a certain level you get blueprints for earlier stages of other aircrafs/ships or you have the option to a new reasearch field (like armored formation works) that is called "transfer to others" and once this is researched you get some blueprints for other similar units minus.
- Redesign seafights: Once aircraft carriers are in place participating in fights battleships and other capital ships just seem to be cannonfodder. They don´t do anything except getting destroyed and dealing no damage. Esp. in longer seafights that last more then 4 hours I would recommend to rethink the fighting logic.
Some thoughts wothout reading throgh all the previous recommendations. So if I posted something that was posted before I´m sorry.
:- Peace offers: Long lists of regions are not readable e.g. when China makes peace proposals to Japan in the late thirties. The same is true when you make a peace proposal and want to offer/claim regions. Instead of having an endless list of regions I would offer a map to the player where he can click on regions he wants to offer or claim or sees the offer another country on a map. Would make things much easier for me.
- Tech: Tech teams are more or less static. This is frustrating esp. when you are playing a middle power e.g. Argentina or Romania and play successfully and start to conquer parts of your neighbours or even big neighbours. I would create some bonus/malus system linked to your power/industrial capacity. Once you have reached a certain economic power by conquest or building industry I would increase industrial research capabilities a bit. When you are in frequent wars I would increase capanilities of officers/military equipment. When you are doing constant research in Aerotech and build aircrafts etc. i would increase this reasearch capacity.
- Tech: Implement base technologies that effect all types of units within one research area. E.g. once you developed a turbojet interceptor and you are in the late 40s and want to develop a fighters you have to do all the little development steps that base on older technoly until you get a proper fighter design even though crucial tech. breakthrough already have been achieved. I would suggest once you develop a technology to a certain level you get blueprints for earlier stages of other aircrafs/ships or you have the option to a new reasearch field (like armored formation works) that is called "transfer to others" and once this is researched you get some blueprints for other similar units minus.
- Redesign seafights: Once aircraft carriers are in place participating in fights battleships and other capital ships just seem to be cannonfodder. They don´t do anything except getting destroyed and dealing no damage. Esp. in longer seafights that last more then 4 hours I would recommend to rethink the fighting logic.
Some thoughts wothout reading throgh all the previous recommendations. So if I posted something that was posted before I´m sorry.
- Country specific techs and units. Now it is only possible to build say a medium Tank, these Tank is equal to all other medium tank's build by other Countrys but that was not true in Real-Life, but what if say the Main countrys (i mean the Countrys selectable in the Scenario Screen bevor game start) could build truly unique exemplars of a medium Tank?
It could be done if there was not one techtree for all Countrys but techtrees specific for say Germany, simply prioritized by the game if it finds a country Tag behind the Infantry_tech.txt ( for example: infantry_tech_GER.txt) if there is no Country tag, then the default techtree is selected. This would give us a techtree specified for the selected Country and so truly unique.
To get the actual country specific units, the game must search for these Tag's in the units folder too (instead of standard "battleship.txt" use "battleship_GER.txt" and so on).
- Another aspect, that could be better is the upgradabilty for the units. In RL the german ME-109 fighter was build over 34.000 times, it was so most build fighter plane troughout the War. For example: Ingame you research Interceptor and get the Me-109, then you research the next Interceptor and get the Fw-190 and all your build Me-109 interceptors are obsolete and will be upgraded to FW-190.
Why not simply get a new variant of the fighter say, the first version is the Me-109A, then you research FW-190 and you can build these new planes, but your existing Me-109A can now be upgraded to the Me-109D version of the Fighter ( here is a link to variants of the Me-109 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_109_variants ). The upgrade of existing Me-109 squads to FW-190 squads could be done by selecting a button in the air division screen, with much higher costs then the simple upgrade to a newer version of the same Fighter.
I know these changes would be huge and i think not very easy to implement, so maybe it is a dream of me, that will never actually be in the game, but you wanted suggestions, and this is mine
All awesome points but I like this one the most, particularly because it actually seems practical to implement.
When you get a peace offer with ~10 provinces you always just decline and move on. This element is totally missing from the game.
When you get a peace offer with ~10 provinces you always just decline and move on. This element is totally missing from the game.
Alright, dont know if anyone would agree with me on this, but maybe adding the Soviet Republics into the game?
They already have the main states after the fall of the former Soviet Union in the game, maybe in the WW1 senario during the Russian civil war if the Soviets win the Republics could be implemented? Or during the post-WW2 senario if the Soviet player wants to puppet them?
Like i said, dont know if anyone would want this, but id enjoy playing one of the Republics like Ukraine or Byelorussia for example, it would add some flavor to the Soviet Union, (i dont modify games, so please dont tell me to just change it, id like to see the option to release the Republics as sub-states to the Soviet Union in the vanilla game.)
They already have the main states after the fall of the former Soviet Union in the game, maybe in the WW1 senario during the Russian civil war if the Soviets win the Republics could be implemented? Or during the post-WW2 senario if the Soviet player wants to puppet them?
Like i said, dont know if anyone would want this, but id enjoy playing one of the Republics like Ukraine or Byelorussia for example, it would add some flavor to the Soviet Union, (i dont modify games, so please dont tell me to just change it, id like to see the option to release the Republics as sub-states to the Soviet Union in the vanilla game.)
It would be interesting. I had actually hoped for a more in-depth Russian Civil War in which the non-soviet factions actually have a chance to win.
And to have the Green armies, Black army, various emerging nations and even Kronstadt represented.
Wait... is Kronstadt even on the map? haha.
- Country specific techs and units. Now it is only possible to build say a medium Tank, these Tank is equal to all other medium tank's build by other Countrys but that was not true in Real-Life, but what if say the Main countrys (i mean the Countrys selectable in the Scenario Screen bevor game start) could build truly unique exemplars of a medium Tank?
It could be done if there was not one techtree for all Countrys but techtrees specific for say Germany, simply prioritized by the game if it finds a country Tag behind the Infantry_tech.txt ( for example: infantry_tech_GER.txt) if there is no Country tag, then the default techtree is selected. This would give us a techtree specified for the selected Country and so truly unique.
To get the actual country specific units, the game must search for these Tag's in the units folder too (instead of standard "battleship.txt" use "battleship_GER.txt" and so on).
- Another aspect, that could be better is the upgradabilty for the units. In RL the german ME-109 fighter was build over 34.000 times, it was so most build fighter plane troughout the War. For example: Ingame you research Interceptor and get the Me-109, then you research the next Interceptor and get the Fw-190 and all your build Me-109 interceptors are obsolete and will be upgraded to FW-190.
Why not simply get a new variant of the fighter say, the first version is the Me-109A, then you research FW-190 and you can build these new planes, but your existing Me-109A can now be upgraded to the Me-109D version of the Fighter ( here is a link to variants of the Me-109 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_109_variants ). The upgrade of existing Me-109 squads to FW-190 squads could be done by selecting a button in the air division screen, with much higher costs then the simple upgrade to a newer version of the same Fighter.
I know these changes would be huge and i think not very easy to implement, so maybe it is a dream of me, that will never actually be in the game, but you wanted suggestions, and this is mine
I like this ideas. It will be great to see them in the game.