Suggestion: Regarding terriforming and the Prethoryn

[Medicine Man]

A random suggestion regarding world consumed by the Prethoryn Swarm.

It looks like there are going to be worlds that are marginally suitable for terraforming in the Utopia expansion (ala. Mars), that are uninhabitable until they are engineered into livable biomes. Is it possible that there could be a large chance of world rendered barren by being consumed by the Prethoryn Swarm could be given this modifier, to make recovering from a bitter fought victory over the swarm a possibility?

 

[Mitchz95]

For a few planets, maybe. But the fact that the Scourge permanently destroy the planets they infest is what makes them a threat to begin with. Yeah, it sucks to have a portion of the galaxy rendered uninhabitable in the wake of a crisis, but they're supposed to be apocalyptic in scope.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Crisis mechanics need to be strengthened, not undermined.

I'm one of the people that thinks Crisis (or at least, the Unbidden) fleets are ludicrously overpowered (because I play on medium-small maps and have zero interest in "paint the galaxy" play), but I think that rather than simply buffing their fleet power the surrounding unique mechanics need to be improved on and made more reliable. The AI Rebellion has a really hard time starting without being immediately crushed, so I'd love to see that improved, and from what I hear the Prethoryn tend to get stuck because of wonky invasion handling.

 

[Moonshadow101]

Building a ringworld involves literally creating idyllic biomes from scratch. A civilization capable of doing that should have no problem restoring a destroyed one on a planet visited by the Prethoryn.

 

[Mitchz95]

Building a ringworld involves literally creating idyllic biomes from scratch. A civilization capable of doing that should have no problem restoring a destroyed one on a planet visited by the Prethoryn.

Yes, it should. But the devs don't want genesis terraforming to be a common thing for gameplay purposes.

 

[Caspoi]

Yes, it should. But the devs don't want genesis terraforming to be a common thing for gameplay purposes.

Bt it wouldn't other than for the purpose of restoring previously habitable worlds, and realistically speaking those worlds would be in a habitable zone and presumably still have some kind of (admittedly incinerated) atmosphere, the tricky part is reintroducing life even on a bacterial level.

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

Meh, I'm in favor of it. Once the swarm is defeated and the threat is passed, I'm not sure that those worlds remaining barren really serves a purpose.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Meh, I'm in favor of it. Once the swarm is defeated and the threat is passed, I'm not sure that those worlds remaining barren really serves a purpose.

An incentive not to lose them in the first place.

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

I would think you are already incentivized by losing all of the development and population on the world, not to mention having to invest an ascension perk into getting that area back. Plus there's the fact that you're not actually guaranteed to get that area back, unless territory works differently than I'm used to losing your planets shrinks your borders, and once shrunk any neighbor with a construction ship and some influence to spend is welcome to move in with outpost stations or better yet, to colonize those arid planets they've been coveting that you didn't touch because you're a fjord dwelling Alpine slug.

What it boils down to though is dynamic play versus static play and balancing something like the Voidborn Perk, which gets stronger in the face of a Prythorean waste, versus the power of genesis terraforming, which could also get significantly more powerful if capable of regular use in a Prythorean waste. Dynamic play is always better than static, and while a large uninhabitable scar consuming a quarter of the galaxy is a nice end-game feature, you'll get more play for your effort if it's something that opens up new goals and objectives.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

I would think you are already incentivized by losing all of the development and population on the world, not to mention having to invest an ascension perk into getting that area back. Plus there's the fact that you're not actually guaranteed to get that area back, unless territory works differently than I'm used to losing your planets shrinks your borders, and once shrunk any neighbor with a construction ship and some influence to spend is welcome to move in with outpost stations or better yet, to colonize those arid planets they've been coveting that you didn't touch because you're a fjord dwelling Alpine slug.

What it boils down to though is dynamic play versus static play and balancing something like the Voidborn Perk, which gets stronger in the face of a Prythorean waste, versus the power of genesis terraforming, which could also get significantly more powerful if capable of regular use in a Prythorean waste. Dynamic play is always better than static, and while a large uninhabitable scar consuming a quarter of the galaxy is a nice end-game feature, you'll get more play for your effort if it's something that opens up new goals and objectives.

I want more things that reshape the map, not less. If the Prethoryn sterilizing worlds is only a temporary thing, that removes all impact of them doing so. No thanks.

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

All impact? Are you always such a fan of the black and white extreme? If so you should watch that, because it's liable to make you demonstrably wrong, like in this case.

An entire planet's population being removed form play is impact. Even if the same species that initially lost that planet manages to restore that planet, repopulate that planet, and build it up to its once former glory, that impact is not undone because the resources time and effort spent on that will be forever lost rebuilding that planet. This is a 4X game, one of momentum and rebuilding that supposedly lost space is going to kill that empire's momentum.

And I actually pointed this out in the section you quoted but didn't actually counter or address, there isn't even a guaranty that the same species would be the ones to reclaim the space. If another species swoops in like a vulture and claims that territory, than builds it up instead of the original claimant, that is somehow not reshaping the map to you?

No, I'm sorry, you're wrong. If you had said, "I prefer a large empty hole to mark the war with the Prythoran, I feel deep in my heart that a blank space on the map that in no way contributes further to play is more impactful." I'd still disagree with you, but at least you'd have been correct, those would have been your feelings and your preferences. Unfortunately the position that you've taken is that a blank space 'reshapes' the map, but a fundamental shift in power does not. And that position is just unsustainable. The map is comprised of the empires that sit on that map. Anything that affects those nations changes the map.

In fact, allowing that land to be reclaimable opens up multiple ways for the map to change. Your preference only lets it be changed one way, the least interesting way if you're continuing to play.

 

[Mitchz95]

And I actually pointed this out in the section you quoted but didn't actually counter or address, there isn't even a guaranty that the same species would be the ones to reclaim the space. If another species swoops in like a vulture and claims that territory, than builds it up instead of the original claimant, that is somehow not reshaping the map to you?

The AI only builds Frontier Outposts in resource-rich systems. There is next to no possibility of them deliberately snagging a former Prethoryn system and then terraforming that planet, and then re-colonizing it. If those planets can be re-terraformed after the Scourge is through with them, the player will be able to take them unchallenged.

For a more "dynamic" crisis that purges worlds but leave them intact, we have the Unbidden. For a crisis that's supposed to be a Tyranid-level apocalypse, we have the Scourge.

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

The AI currently only builds Frontier Outposts in resource-rich systems. If the AI picks up genesis terraforming the AI may calculate things differently. If the AI ends up with a ravaged world on the edge of their space they may also spread organically back into that space. And while the player is more likely to take advantage of an opportunity, that's always going to be the case. It's no reason to remove opportunities from the game.