suggestion: non-instant reinforcement

[TheDarkside]

I think one way to improve gameplay by making it more challenging is to not allow divisions to be instantly reinforced. The organization penalty and supply cost is not nearly enough in my opinion. Perhaps if a division can only increase it's strength by a little bit every day, it could balance it a little better.

Therefore, if a division is taken down to 1 strength and wins a battle, you cannot instantly reinforce them, wait a few days for org to go back to max and keep invading... you'd have to let them reinforce themselves for a month or so- which is still much faster than building a whole new division, yet not so fast that you suffer no attrition from wars besides a few meaningless supply less.

thoughts?

 

[verbal]

Sounds good, and maybe air and mechanized units should be repaired in the same way ships are.

 

[unmerged(11567)]

That's a tough one. In the game, the "cost" of reinforcing a division for say, the United States, ends up being neglible. But it not easy to do for a minor country.

Is it fair (read: legitimate) for Country A to receive a harsher penalty than Country B?

 

[dsteve3]

The fact that organization drops like a stone the instant you reinforce acts as the counter balance.

IIRC, I understand that this type of reinforcement was used more by the US than anyone else. They would bring 'green' trainees up and attach them to units in action, bringing down the quality of the whole unit.

I believe the Germans would detach battalions, reinforce and re-drill the troops so they would get used to operating as a whole (in the beginning, when the war was going well for them). I wouldn't want to try to juggle that.

Typically, a regiment has at least three battalions, one's a trainer with the other two being the line battalion. When a battalion on the field sufferred too many causalties, they would go back and the trainer would come up and replace them. Then again, sometimes when a whole battalion is wiped out, they will retire the battalions colours in honour of their loss (Black Watch?)

That's too complicated for the game. Leave it as it is, its fine.

 

[TheDarkside]

Well in my experience supply has never meant much, while I have played a few of the larger minor countries like Brazil even. I'm sure for Luxemburg, the supply might be quite an issue, but who plays as Luxumburg anyway!

But the point is losing 99% of your division shouldn't be neglible for anyone, even USA. The fact is the divisions are being replaced by new soldiers, who need to be trained and prepared. This currently is not happening, as soldiers seem to grow on trees ready to top off your panzer division's ranks.

 

[unmerged(10167)]

I think that its a pretty good idea to not have instant reinforcements. Factors to take into the calculation.

- Kind of unit. Ships take the longest. Tanks and planes in the middle and infantry gets reinforcements quickest. I dont recessary think that planes need to reinforce like ships does. Field repairs of tanks and planes was done in the fields.

- How far away from your core provinces you are. Far away, then it takes longer time for your reinforcements to arrive.

Lower organization during the first days after being reinforced. The new troopers need a time to get used to the conditions and position them self properly.

 

[TheDarkside]

Originally posted by dsteve3
The fact that organization drops like a stone the instant you reinforce acts as the counter balance.

IIRC, I understand that this type of reinforcement was used more by the US than anyone else. They would bring 'green' trainees up and attach them to units in action, bringing down the quality of the whole unit.

But then why do infantry divisions require 60 days or whatever to be "produced" in the first place? If you can refill an infantry division with 99% new recruits in a single day, why does it take you 60 days to create a new one- which is 100% new recuits? Why not just pop a new infatry unit immediately and let organization represent their training, as you say?

 

[Jon Shafer]

You never learn to respect those insta-reinforcments more than on the eastern front.

But yes, it would be more realistic if there was some sort of delay.

 

[unmerged(576)]

I've mentioned this numerous times in connect with supplies, but never seemed to get a reply. Ohh well.

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=58166

Anyway, I think the best way is that once you hit the reinforce button the strength only slow goes up, the rate being determined by infrastructure of a province, weather and distance from a home supply province. Naturally, if you move the unit, reinforcement stops.

What steve3 brings up in terms of US vs German reinforcement techniques can then be affected through leaders, the cabinet or doctrines. I also think you should be able to merge two understrength divisions together, if they're the same, and get an average organisation skill for the new unit.

 

[dsteve3]

Those units are training at home while their forward battalions are fighting. Do you want to do the accounting for this? I don't! Too much hassle.

I don't feel this game needs to be bogged in micro-management. In practice, the rear battalion would simple be brought up. Click the button, wait a few days, maybe a week and your unit is full and max organisation at the same time. As it is, press the button, strength goes up right away, but organization takes a while to build up.

We call that "six of one and half-dozen of the other".

Same thing but different.

 

[unmerged(6469)]

You should post this in the enhancement thread.

Also all this talk of micro management where is it.

You balanec your resources and your done.

 

[unmerged(576)]

Originally posted by dsteve3
Those units are training at home while their forward battalions are fighting. Do you want to do the accounting for this? I don't! Too much hassle.

Well ideally you'd have two manpower groups. Our current basic one and one for reserve troops, which would be another counter under the factory settings where you allocate supplies and manpower to it.

However, I'm happy with the current manpower system, just not with instant supplies and reinforcements to groups thousands of miles away from the homeland.

 

[unmerged(9143)]

Micromanagement hell. Organisation should build up more slowly, end of story, IMHO. *Maybe* have the further from home provinces, the longer it takes, but frankly the other suggestions look like absolute hell.

As it stands now, I think that if you were to double or triple the reaccumulation of organisation for land units, the problems would be solved.

Cheers,

Dr. Charm

 

[unmerged(952)]

It should take significantly longer than it does.

That's the main thing. It would probably be nice to have the time it takes be somewhat a factor of distance from home province and possibly also the terrain in the province where the unit is being reinforced, but those considerations are secondary compared to just making it take longer.

 

[TheDarkside]

Originally posted by Dr.Charm
Micromanagement hell. Organisation should build up more slowly, end of story, IMHO. *Maybe* have the further from home provinces, the longer it takes, but frankly the other suggestions look like absolute hell.

As it stands now, I think that if you were to double or triple the reaccumulation of organisation for land units, the problems would be solved.

Cheers,

Dr. Charm

Where do you see micromanagement? Perhaps I did not explain well enough, but you would not have to click the reinforce button every day- you click once as you do now, and the unit's strength will gradually increase each day depending on whatever variables are deemed appropriate. Each day, if the province has enough supplies, the unit's strength increases until it reaches 100.

 

[unmerged(9143)]

Originally posted by TheDarkside
Where do you see micromanagement? Perhaps I did not explain well enough, but you would not have to click the reinforce button every day- you click once as you do now, and the unit's strength will gradually increase each day depending on whatever variables are deemed appropriate. Each day, if the province has enough supplies, the unit's strength increases until it reaches 100.

Sorry, I was responding to the posts that wanted separate manpower pools and such. I think your idea and my idea are pretty much exactly the same. Yours is a little more complex (and franky, I like it more, I just don't know how easy it is to implement) but basically boils down to 'make organisation build up more slowly'

Cheers,

Dr. Charm