Suggestion: Magic items

[Nerdfish]

Enchanting item was rather bland in Majesty. Since majesty is half an RPG perhaps item production could be treated with some more detail in the sequel. Age of wonders shadow magic had a brilliant system for this, and I will suggest something along its lines here.

Many of you would ask how would a sophisticated item system benefit the game. It could potentially add a whole level of strategy! a player could commission the creation of an item, then sell it at the market, potentially founding their entire strategy on item creation.

There are three "simple" rules for enchantment.

1. Magic item can have as many enchantments as base item quality level. Assuming there are 6 quality levels (3 blacksmith, 3 loot), an item could have maximum of six different enchantments
2. The power of each enchantment is limited by quality level of the base item, so a staff of spite can have a damage +6 enchantment, and a fighting staff can have +3 at most.
3. Some enchantment requires other enchantment. For example, Critical hit requires at least +3 damage, therefore without a good blacksmith some enchantments just can't be placed.

Here is my idea of enchantment tree for weapons, to serve as an example only. The number in the bracket before each arrow indicate the enchantment required to place the more advanced enchantment. Admittedly these are all ripped off various "action" RPG

Accuracy, Melee or ranged (+3) -> Attack speed (+5)-> Strike multiple target
Physical Damage (+3)->Damage armor (+5)-> Critical hit %
Electric damage (+3)-> Paralysis % (+5)->Chain lightning length
Fire damage (+3)-> Ignition Damage (+5)-> Ignition Length
Frost damage (+3)-> Slow Severity (+5)-> Frost nova size
Magic damage (+3)->Bypass Parry/Dodge (+5)-> Bypass Enchantment
Divine Damage(+3)->Stun% (+5) -> Dispel magic%
Unholy Damage (+3)->Life Steal (+5)-> Curse

Even an average ranger with Yew Longbow that fires 3 times a second at 6 different targets can annihilate a wave of goblin before they close. Allowing even the average player to have some fun and finish some beginner quests with just a few heroes.

Perhaps there should be a repository of blueprints, so a player can come up with these things at his/her leisure and unleash their creativity in a mission in a well thought-out manner

 

[Alfryd]

...a player could commission the creation of an item, then sell it at the market, potentially founding their entire strategy on item creation.

The idea of being able to engineer the creation of a variety of different enchantments is certainly interesting, but given the number of customers a typical blacksmith/wizard's guild has, I'd prefer that I didn't have to pay individual attention to every sale. I'd prefer if there were some kind of 'research tree' you could pursue, or perhaps individual settings that you could tweak for each blacksmith/wizard's guild, or perhaps individual smith citizens could learn skills appropriate to a particular type of enchantment, and heroes would specify what they'd like to buy, or perhaps different temples/guilds/races would add specific options. Etc.

In fact, I've been thinking that certain options on the wizard skill tree- such as enchantment and teratogenesis- might be best modelled as long-term services pursued at particular buildings. So, this could be a useful complement.

 

[Spiderman]

You know, I've never really considered Majesty to be half an RPG; you don't really have control over the stats of your heros when leveling up or stuff like that. Maybe 1/16 of an RPG merely due to leveling up and heros getting stronger as they do so.

 

[Nerdfish]

I did not imply the sovereign is the only one who can commission an item. practically anyone who wants an weapon enchanted would be commissioning an item. Yes, researches should be required before a specific enchantment can be placed.

It's an additional option for players to commission a number of items. but even if those are well designed it doesn't mean heroes will have the guts or the pocket to buy them.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

Just to get it straight, you suggest that a +1 enchantment modifier doesn't add 1 to damage, but allow a hero to place one "enchantment" in their weapon (some which require specific conditions (like it being +3>), most requiring research or discovery)?

If that is the case, I think that would be a great idea, if the enchantments are balanced amongst each other, and heroes make smart choices (or could undo them if such an upgrade they once did is no longer needed, for a fee) ofcourse.

If that is not the case, I am afraid I missed the intention of your idea...

 

[Nerdfish]

Just to get it straight, you suggest that a +1 enchantment modifier doesn't add 1 to damage, but allow a hero to place one "enchantment" in their weapon (some which require specific conditions (like it being +3>), most requiring research or discovery)?

If that is the case, I think that would be a great idea, if the enchantments are balanced amongst each other, and heroes make smart choices (or could undo them if such an upgrade they once did is no longer needed, for a fee) ofcourse.

If that is not the case, I am afraid I missed the intention of your idea...

That's more or less the idea Enchantments also add pre/post fix to the name of the item, allowing your rangers to create something like the burning electrified avenger longbow of precision

Here is some enchantments that you probably don't want to research - for your amusement. (these are not intended to be taken seriously)

Summon cows - the item summons a specific number of cows when striking / struck, depending on power of the enchantment. great for one of those "no comment" moments.

Create gnomes - The item create a gnome at the point of impact upon been struck to absorb the impact. greatly increase its defensive value at cost of many, many gnomes.

Booming cruse- the item curses in loud, angry voice upon been struck / blocked.

Exploding chicken - the arrow launched by ranged weapon with this enchantment transmute into homing, exploding chicken in flight.

Hadoken - the power shock launched by the enchanted globe is greatly increased, if worn by a monk. Each power shock is accompanied by loud proclamation of "Hadoken".

The One Ring - greatly increase the market value when the enchantment is placed on a ring, doesn't do anything else.

Ring Amulet - a ring can be inserted into an amulet with this enchantment.

Amulet Ring - an amulet can be inserted into a ring after this enchantment has been placed on said ring. using ring amulet and amulet ring enchantments, one can recursively create arbitrarily powerful items. (HoA inside joke) :rofl: One of such items is called the socketed amulet of the socketed ring of socketed amulet of the ...

Cooker's recipe - Adds "Cooker's" prefix to the name of the item and give it a 75% probability of exploding upon its next use, dealing 500-1500 damage to all objects on the entire map. Very useful on a healing potion.

Holy grenade - Upon been placed on a bottle of healing potion, the item become a holy grenade that deals 100-500 holy damage in massive radius exactly three seconds after it's thrown.

Ender's blade - Add "Ender's" prefix to the name of the item and if the item score a critical hit, it fire off a blast that scores critical hit to all creatures in the range, and if the blast hit any creature, another blast will originate from that creature, this repeats until the chain breaks, or everyone is dead. (inside joke with Fal, and the ender's game)

Dragon bait - Cause all dragon, friendly or otherwise, to stop whatever they are doing and attack the creature carrying the item with this enchantment, upon sighting the item.

Character shield - the creature carrying a shield with this enchantment cannot lose its last hit point.

Masamune - The size of the weapon with this enchantment is greatly increased. It has no other effects.

Emperor's recipe - Add "emperor's" prefix to the item's name. and depending on the type of item, the enchantment will have the following effect - if placed on an armor, it become transparent, if placed on any other item, the item will loudly proclaim For the emperor ! or In the name of the emperor! upon each use.

 

[Alfryd]

You know, I've never really considered Majesty to be half an RPG; you don't really have control over the stats of your heros when leveling up or stuff like that.

Neither does HoA, which is 100% of an RPG.

 

[Spiderman]

That's because that aspect is carried over from Majesty. I've lobbied to change that so players can have some control over their stats when leveling up, but no one else has gone for it.

 

[Alfryd]

That's because that aspect is carried over from Majesty. I've lobbied to change that so players can have some control over their stats when leveling up, but no one else has gone for it.

I'd love to see it changed too, but I would like it even more if the whole idea of 'class' and 'level' were abolished in favour of a skill-based system where your assets improve through practice, research, tuition and observation. Regardless, HoA conforms entirely to normal definitions for a simple RPG.

The part of majesty that wasn't an RPG was the fact that you no direct control over the RPG aspects, with a small amount of crude economic simulation tacked on.

Here is some enchantments that you probably don't want to research - for your amusement. (these are not intended to be taken seriously)

Actually, some of these would be great for random spell failure FX.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

I'd love to see it changed too, but I would like it even more if the whole idea of 'class' and 'level' were abolished in favour of a skill-based system where your assets improve through practice, research, tuition and observation.

No for MFKS2, and no for HoA.
Extreplolation:

MFKS2; As with MFKS you should have the decision of a wide variety of heroes to recruite to do your bidding. If they all started out as X and then decided on their own (or worse; the sovereign, ruining the Majesty "point") that would totally eliminate ANY kind of possible strategy. It would be a RT instead of RTS. And we all hate it when everything is left to pure chance, without influence, so that would be a major step backwards.

HoA; It might work for RPG like Dungeon Siege and Oblivion but I really don't see it working here, as most of the classes are very similar already. How would you go about using this "improve by using" idea to form different heroes like Warrior, WoD, Solarii, Adept, and not just all be it the generic Fighter class? Because these 2 mentioned games are very large it wouldn't be too bad for them to allow limited diversity advancements, but HoA doesn't have that luxury, severly limiting replayability and lenght 16 different classes do have.

 

[Alfryd]

If they all started out as X and then decided on their own (or worse; the sovereign, ruining the Majesty "point") that would totally eliminate ANY kind of possible strategy.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, there is nothing to prevent the sovereign recruiting units that have a different array of starting skills, primary attributes, and guild affiliations, which would naturally tend to shape their future development. In addition, there are strategic benefits to having a diversity of roles within a single party, so that different characters would evolve along different paths to avoid direct competition with eachother and complement eachother's needs. Ideally, everybody finds a niche suited to their talents and existing skills, and adapts to it.

It might work for RPG like Dungeon Siege and Oblivion but I really don't see it working here, as most of the classes are very similar already.

I... don't really ses the similarity between, say, rangers and healers. I presume you would distinguish the warrior from the WoD by the WoD's transformation ritual, and the solarus and adept by their initiation to respective temples and according set of spells (which also require practice/tuition.)
Secondly, to my mind, allowing customisation through practice increases replayability, rather than limiting it, since you can tweak an existing character extensively without having to start over with a new character. Only permitting customisation when you 'level' means that it takes more and more effort to alter your character, even if it's just to learn something trivial.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

Sounds like me it would be a far more complicated sollution than just offering several different classes per structure (like Warrior's Guilds have Warriors, WoDs and Paladins now). Besides that it would once again defeat the strategy part, if the sovereign doens't have a selection of base skills (which certainly should be variable) to pick his candidates from. If he has, it might work, but there should be alot of "actions" added to MFKS2 not present in MFKS to have any deterent differential effect, than just basically the same as a levelup with *that* much more calculationswork, rather spend in the AI IMO.

Very well; tell me exactly how to make a HoA hero warrior that would be costumisable, what to alter exactly (added crit hit, hit multiple enemies, what spells?) while maintaining balance and the current degree of variation. Also tell how to fix the then coming problem of having items altered to fit far more classes, limiting item-hunting as we would all go for Plate Armor of Destiny wearing Golem Sledge Wielding Club Holding Double Attack Attack Multiple Enemies superheroes.
In the end; I would like to know why exactly a hero would have 16 of these characters, instead of 16 different characters, all carrying their own special traits and weaknesses, limited item selection and difficulty?

 

[Alfryd]

...offering several different classes per structure (like Warrior's Guilds have Warriors, WoDs and Paladins now).

You *would* just have several different 'classes' per structure. But these would be modelled in terms of guild affiliations and starting skills, rather than arbitrarily restricting what the hero can or can't learn.

Besides that it would once again defeat the strategy part, if the sovereign doens't have a selection of base skills (which certainly should be variable) to pick his candidates from.

He does. He has the guilds, who all train their recruits up to certain minimum standards of competency in areas important to their trade, and select initiates with talent in those areas. There's nothing unrealistic about that, and I'm fine with it.

The 'simplicity' of level-based systems is purely an illusion, as anyone who's dealt with the complexities governing feats, skills, multiclassing and prestige classes from D&D can attest. The rules involved to allow for the clunky, unrealistic character customisation permitted within a class/level framework are at least as complicated as what you'd ultimately need for a skill-based system such as GURPS or Call of Cthulhu. Designers only really stick to the former paradigm out of force of habit.

...we would all go for Plate Armor of Destiny wearing Golem Sledge Wielding Club Holding Double Attack Attack Multiple Enemies superheroes.

I imagine you might introduce some kind of radical, crazy, exotic rule that specific weapons take extensive training to wield properly, and that heavy armour makes you slow and clumsy unless you have a very high strength score.
Because that's exactly what happens in reality.
So there would be no point in bothering with that if you're already heavily invested in, say, arcane spellcasting- which is inhibited by metal armour in the first place, and requires too much concentration for you to wield weapons at the same time.

In the end; I would like to know why exactly a hero would have 16 of these characters...

If you have 8 different optional abilities, which I'm guessing is what you mean here, that's 2^8=256 possible combinations. Not 8.

Look, I have no expectation that this system will actually see implementation in the sequel at this point, but you're simply not exercising your imagination.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

The 'simplicity' of level-based systems is purely an illusion, as anyone who's dealt with the complexities governing feats, skills, multiclassing and prestige classes from D&D can attest. The rules involved to allow for the clunky, unrealistic character customisation permitted within a class/level framework are at least as complicated as what you'd ultimately need for a skill-based system such as GURPS or Call of Cthulhu. Designers only really stick to the former paradigm out of force of habit.

Only MFKS doens't have multi-classing, feats, skills etc.
Such anti-simplicity "rules" only would have to be added in with your idea of having the heroes choice an own different path instead of following the designated path.
Sure it might add something if heroes at level up can choose A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H and I instead of A but there is the small problem it won't be your choice, making it frustating if they choose wrong, not to mention it adds alot of time to design all the new feats, not to mention properly balance those out aswell.

@ HoA: Then, like Oblivion, I am afraid there will be the melee, ranged or magic class. Sure, the melee and ranged may use magic too, but infrequent. In the end all feats would be maxed and you have a master sniper who can kill goblins with a single axe-blow while frying another instantly with a fireball. Oblivion's RPG-system is one of the most broken systems ever designated in gaming history. There have been dozens of mods released just trying to fix the huge mess Bethesda made. I really don't wish for something like that to be necessary for MFKS2.

 

[UniversalWolf]

I'm generally in favor of a complex magic item system, though I'm not sure it's a good idea to let the player commission specific items.

I'd rather see different types of enchantments created by different buildings. So the Mage Tower can give plusses - perhaps the (level 3) Temple of Krypta can give energy draining or the (level 3) Temple of Helia can create flaming weapons.

There should be stringent limitations on this kind of thing, though. I don't want half my heroes walking around with flaming swords. Rare special reagents would be a good control.

 

[Nerdfish]

Sounds like me it would be a far more complicated sollution than just offering several different classes per structure (like Warrior's Guilds have Warriors, WoDs and Paladins now). Besides that it would once again defeat the strategy part, if the sovereign doens't have a selection of base skills (which certainly should be variable) to pick his candidates from. If he has, it might work, but there should be alot of "actions" added to MFKS2 not present in MFKS to have any deterent differential effect, than just basically the same as a levelup with *that* much more calculationswork, rather spend in the AI IMO.

Very well; tell me exactly how to make a HoA hero warrior that would be costumisable, what to alter exactly (added crit hit, hit multiple enemies, what spells?) while maintaining balance and the current degree of variation. Also tell how to fix the then coming problem of having items altered to fit far more classes, limiting item-hunting as we would all go for Plate Armor of Destiny wearing Golem Sledge Wielding Club Holding Double Attack Attack Multiple Enemies superheroes.
In the end; I would like to know why exactly a hero would have 16 of these characters, instead of 16 different characters, all carrying their own special traits and weaknesses, limited item selection and difficulty?

Your kind is a scourge to this community, one one hand you lack talent to come up with anything original yourself, on the other hand you are too jealous to respect other people's ideas. those like you are responsible for the lack activity this forum is in.

Since other people have made better response to your post then I can, I am just going to point out that indiscriminate , nonconstructive criticism is about as useful as half a wheel and you can take the snobbishness elsewhere.

Same applies to spiderman.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

Your kind is a scourge to this community, on one hand you lack talent to come up with anything original yourself, on the other hand you are too jealous to respect other people's ideas. those like you are responsible for the lack activity this forum is in.

Since other people have made better response to your post then I can, I am just going to point out that indiscriminate , nonconstructive criticism is about as useful as half a wheel and you can take the snobbishness elsewhere.

Same applies to spiderman.

Change for the sake of change isn't exactly development in my eyes. If it ain't broken; don't try to fix it.
No, I don't have that many ideas, but that's mainly because I don't think the MFKS-formula needs that many changes. HoA suggestions I do elsewhere (or implent ).

If an idea is praised in the heavens, yet a part of the community disagreed, it wouldn't help the developers if they didn't voice their opions. Alfryd makes pro-points for "learn by use", I make pro-points for classes, and why I think a learning tree wouldn't work here...

 

[Alfryd]

Your kind is a scourge to this community, one one hand you lack talent to come up with anything original yourself, on the other hand you are too jealous to respect other people's ideas...

Nerdfish, I can sympathise, but Hassat and Spidey are just as entitled to present their opinions as anyone who cares enough about the game to post in the first place. Think of it this way: If you can persuade them, you can persuade anyone. They're a litmus test for broader fanbase appeal.

Ideas exist to be debated. If you can't stand the heat- write it in your diary.

 

[Alfryd]

Change for the sake of change isn't exactly development in my eyes. If it ain't broken; don't try to fix it.

Baseball caps!

I guess it's one of Cooker's idea's that I'd call 'harmless, but not top-priority.' It shouldn't be overly difficult to implement, doesn't raise any massive probems that I can see, and might bring a little variety and novelty to the party. Things like stables, or barracks, or a cartoonish art style favouring weird hair and oversized weapons would be more contentious.

I'd rather see different types of enchantments created by different buildings. So the Mage Tower can give plusses - perhaps the (level 3) Temple of Krypta can give energy draining or the (level 3) Temple of Helia can create flaming weapons.

There should be stringent limitations on this kind of thing, though. I don't want half my heroes walking around with flaming swords. Rare special reagents would be a good control.

I'm mostly in agreement, but I reckon the expense and rarity of +5 enchantment facilities, the array of options, plus the exclusive nature of the temples, would be a reasonable enough limitation.

 

[Spiderman]

Same applies to spiderman.

And this is partly why I said in the HoA dev forums why I don't post much here.

You and Alfryd seem to have a ton of ideas. That's great. I just don't agree with most of them, because I think it's taking the game in a different direction than I want to see it. However, I didn't have any real problems with the original game so I don't have many suggestions here, which is why I don't post my own. I am quite content to see what 1CO will come out with.

However, since the devs DO read this forum, I throw in my objection to a particular idea here and there. Why? Because though I don't really offer my own solution (again, for reasons above), it's to show the devs that not everyone here is for the ideas posted. Otherwise, this forum would just be full of "Maj2 should be this" and the devs could be thinking "Well, no one has said anything bad about those ideas so maybe that's what the fans want". And I *don't* want it.

I'm sorry if you have a problem with that. But this forum is for Majesty fans for all, not "Majesty fans of Nerdfish's Ideas".