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Pellucid

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Does it sound reasonable or efficient to make high fantasy and low fantasy into seperate options selectable at startup? I kind of understand why there's a clash between the fantasy crowd and the history crowd, but there doesn't seem to be a comfortable middle ground! For example, the history buffs would NEVER tolerate the Byzantine Empire's continued existence...the fantasy side is currently scripting high fantasy events allowing Byzantium to become Rome and turn pagan again.

Yeesh, can we please stop the craziness? I'd like my game to be a plausible fantasy scenario; I want to turn off the pagan Byzantium events. At the same rate, I don't want it to be 100% impossible for the AI Byzantium to survive, either, and I DO want Byzantium to continue to get plausible historical events post-1500...but there's no compromise. It's all either "fantasy" or "history;" nothing in between.

Furthermore, I think some of the people who tend toward historical accuracy might like a "low fantasy" option as well; one that takes into account the slight randomness of the game and puts minor embellishments on ahistorical outcomes.

So does anyone else think this is a good idea? Or am I alone on this one?
 

unmerged(40707)

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Members of "Byzantine crew" could separate their events in two. One part in Fantasy as it is (ie. plausible) and other part as a new option like "Byzantine Craziness" (no offense ;) ). Maybe the title of this option could be "High Fantasy" ... after all. :D
 

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Given that the main portion of this mod, focuses on history, I think it would be a step in the wrong direction to create another fantasy option. If anything, perhaps there should be more oversight to make sure that things in the fantasy have some relations to things that are plausible.
 

Pellucid

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Garbon said:
Given that the main portion of this mod, focuses on history, I think it would be a step in the wrong direction to create another fantasy option. If anything, perhaps there should be more oversight to make sure that things in the fantasy have some relations to things that are plausible.
I disagree strongly, and really think that you guys need to re-evaluate your stance on what is "historical" and what isn't. Technically, giving players more than one option on any event is "ahistorical" by the definition you guys are selling. Giving the player more options and giving the game more flavor seems to be the overriding purpose of the AGC-EEP, not turning the game into a status-quo history review. A low fantasy and high fantasy setting gives the players more options, and actually makes unusual outcomes MORE historical by providing some rhyme and reason to them rather than leaving them as bizarre anomolies with no reason or purpose behind them.
 

Norrefeldt

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This is basically a problem only for players of Byzantine Empire, at least so far.
In this case it would be better to have an event, in the Fantasy scenario, where a player can chose between high and low fantasy. That event would allow four different versions of fantasy stuff, and we ought to be able to accomodate all different kinds of players within this.
 

Trin Tragula

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Norrefeldt said:
This is basically a problem only for players of Byzantine Empire, at least so far.
In this case it would be better to have an event, in the Fantasy scenario, where a player can chose between high and low fantasy. That event would allow four different versions of fantasy stuff, and we ought to be able to accomodate all different kinds of players within this.

Actually I'm pretty sure there is such an event allready (with the pagan rome event path as choice B)...
 

Norrefeldt

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I couldn't find it. It ought to be at start more or less, right?
There are many different ideas of BYZ: Catholic Resurgence, Uniting Orthodox Faith, a New Roman Empire. That leaves plenty of room, even for my own personal favourite scenario where the goal is a protestant United States of Byzantium, coloniser of North America and master of the converted Middle East. It will control 86% of the oilresources at 1950. :D
 
Last edited:

Thistletooth

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If you're not interested in a "crazy" re-Paganized Byzantium, there's absolutely no reason why you can't just decide not to download that particular mod. Just stick with the general Byzantine Renaissance events. If you're looking for a kind of middle ground, I'll bet there's something out there too. I've been looking around for a bit for just that sort of thing, and I've found, in addition to the crazy Pagan Rome events created by Llywelan (sp?), I also have a vague recollection of another mod that would enable the Byzantine player to expand in a similar way as in the Renaissance events, only extend their cores into the Levant and Egypt, and even into Italy!

AGCEEP is flexible, remember. You have the option of taking only what you want.

That said, I would love to see the Low and High Fantasy options you are proposing, mostly because I'd love to have more things to pick and choose from (maybe that "Merchant Princes" idea I've seen bandied about but never actually seen available for download). And if other people are gonna be doin' the work, then why not? :rolleyes:

Norrefeldt said:
There are many different ideas of BYZ: Catholic Resurgence, Uniting Orthodox Faith, a New Roman Empire. That leaves plenty of room, even for my own personal favourite scenario where the goal is a protestant United States of Byzantium, coloniser of North America and master of the converted Middle East. It will control 86% of the oilresources at 1950.

Finally! A world where someone might take a serious look at alternate energy sources. :D
 

Norrefeldt

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Thistletooth said:
If you're not interested in a "crazy" re-Paganized Byzantium, there's absolutely no reason why you can't just decide not to download that particular mod.
Not sure what you refer to here. What is it you don't have to download?
Having several scanarios just for fantasy BYZ is unecessary. But I understand the problem since there is such a broad flora of ideas. Having an event at start, similar to the DP reminder event is my usggestion. It ought to be possible for the BYZ fans to agree on the four best fantasy scenarios, script them and submit. BYZ stuff is perhaps the most discussed topic, yet we haven't had any submission so far. I hope four different paths can make that possible.
 

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Norrefeldt said:
Not sure what you refer to here. What is it you don't have to download?
Having several scanarios just for fantasy BYZ is unecessary. But I understand the problem since there is such a broad flora of ideas. Having an event at start, similar to the DP reminder event is my usggestion. It ought to be possible for the BYZ fans to agree on the four best fantasy scenarios, script them and submit. BYZ stuff is perhaps the most discussed topic, yet we haven't had any submission so far. I hope four different paths can make that possible.

Unless I'm mistaken, pagan byzantium is only possible if you download the Byzantine Empire Events Annex. When you start after downloading it (and turning the fantasy events on), it does indeed ask you if you want a more realistic scenario, or just want to go crazy as a pagan Byzantium (this is the first event in the Byzantium file after you download the annex). At present, I believe there are only two or three extra events on the pagan path, one which makes you pagan, and one later when you've captured your cores and Thrace and Hellas are Pagan which gives you cores on the entire roman empire.
 

Pellucid

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Norrefeldt said:
I couldn't find it. It ought to be at start more or less, right?
There are many different ideas of BYZ: Catholic Resurgence, Uniting Orthodox Faith, a New Roman Empire. That leaves plenty of room, even for my own personal favourite scenario where the goal is a protestant United States of Byzantium, coloniser of North America and master of the converted Middle East. It will control 86% of the oilresources at 1950. :D
I actually went the Reformist path. Dark blue blob in the southeast!