Suggestion: Guarantee should no longer cost a Diplomatic Relationship

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pfcpointer

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The restrictions to changes of war leader in v1.8 have reduced the Defensive strength of Enforce Peace, DotF, Warnings, Guarantees, & even Alliances.

IMO this has overall been a positive re-balance to the game making it easier to assess the initial scope of offensive wars*. If it is easier for the player to do so, then it follows that it is the same for the AI. It presumably makes it less likely that the AI will start rash wars that it is unlikely to win.

*The primary defensive re-balance appears to be the comparative ease in defenders bringing in new allies after commencement of a war.

Despite the introduction of a minimum war length, minor states are even more vulnerable to predatory neighbours than prior to v1.8. IMO they are no longer really worth being allied or guaranteed by a larger state, as this is now only likely to delay their inevitable demise, rather than prevent it... and is not worth the ongoing expenditure of a Diplomatic Relationship in almost all circumstances.

My first thought was that a guarantee from a larger power SHOULD still allow a change of defensive war-leader... But this would negate the positive benefits to player & AI offensive war planning brought in by v1.8, & it would be difficult to justify when not available to Allies, Enforce Peace, DotF etc.

Therefore I suggest that guarantees (like warnings) should NOT cost a diplomatic relationship.

Arguably they might be restricted to being given ONLY to minor states (i.e. those that could be annexed for 100% WS), & ONLY by larger states that cannot be so easily annexed. Perhaps a small one-off cost in Diplomatic MPs might be levied on the guarantor, as unrestricted guarantees would be more effective than giving Warnings to potential predators.

This measure would encourage more guaranteeing of minor states, making it much more likely that minor states would have more than one guarantee, in addition to any other legitimate allies.

Any thoughts please?
 
Last edited:

oblio-

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I think it would be wide open to abuse from the player. You could just spam them and get numerous free CBs
This. Life is a nightmare when playing minors spammed by majors with warnings (cause warnings don't use up a diplo slot). No need to make it a boring hell.
 

Freudia

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You have a five year window; if the minor state gets fully sieged down and then fails to be unsieged in that window, then you lost and the minor state deserves to be annexed. I do not see anything wrong with this, other than it causing stupid scenarios where the other powers in the war are unable to reach you or the occupied state and thus pointlessly drags out the war for no reason.

You also seem to misunderstand the intended use of guarantees currently in-game. Guarantees haven't been for protecting minor states in SP in for as long as I've played (1.5); they've been a relation boost either to secure an alliance with a large power or to aid in vassalage of said minor powers.

Also warnings not taking up a diplo slot is overpowered, considering the AI will warn literally everybody around them that is small instead of just the big bads who threaten the small nations.
 

pfcpointer

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You have a five year window; if the minor state gets fully sieged down and then fails to be unsieged in that window, then you lost and the minor state deserves to be annexed. I do not see anything wrong with this, other than it causing stupid scenarios where the other powers in the war are unable to reach you or the occupied state and thus pointlessly drags out the war for no reason.

You also seem to misunderstand the intended use of guarantees currently in-game. Guarantees haven't been for protecting minor states in SP in for as long as I've played (1.5); they've been a relation boost either to secure an alliance with a large power or to aid in vassalage of said minor powers.

Also warnings not taking up a diplo slot is overpowered, considering the AI will warn literally everybody around them that is small instead of just the big bads who threaten the small nations.

Guarantees ARE useful as a relation boost, but I cannot believe that was/is their intended primary use.

I agree warnings are comparatively overpowered. That is one of the reasons why I cannot see the justification for the cost of guarantees. I would prefer to see both as measures merely to deter the growth of other aggressive powers. Perhaps neither should bestow the ability to make your own gains in a resulting war
 

pfcpointer

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This. Life is a nightmare when playing minors spammed by majors with warnings (cause warnings don't use up a diplo slot). No need to make it a boring hell.

Another fair point... Making both Warnings & Guarantees cost moderate MPs would reduce unrestricted spamming. Better still would be restricting giving Guarantees to minor powers only, & ability to give warnings only to valid rivals.

Expansion by minor powers would be even harder, no argument. But is that of itself a bad or unrealistic thing?