Suggestion: Give me my claim immediately if I get caught

[freedavebrown]

Topic. If I get caught fabricating I should immediately get the claim.

Reasoning:

1) It makes sense. If they catch me the first month and know what I am doing, what exactly is the diplomat doing for the next 11 months?

2) It would be a nice balance against the AE you get for being caught.

 

[tobias.mb]

It makes sense.

No it doesn't. Whatever your diplomat is doing (probably bribing some officials / some demagoge work inciting the populace); why should it magically be instantly finished when you get caught? If anything it should take longer or abort completly after you get caught.
The only one who should get a cb immediatly is the target. (insult cb seems fitting)

Edit: and this thread belongs into the suggestions forum.

 

[Mauer]

What would make sense is if the diplomat returned immediately and was unable to complete their mission.

 

[Sian]

Countersuggestion: Post your suggestions in the suggestions forum

 

[Metal_Izanagi]

Topic. If I get caught fabricating I should immediately get the claim.

Reasoning:

1) It makes sense. If they catch me the first month and know what I am doing, what exactly is the diplomat doing for the next 11 months?

2) It would be a nice balance against the AE you get for being caught.

But...that makes no sense. As someone else said, your diplomat is magicking up documents, bribing officials, and convincing local nobles/influential persons to not outright refuse to join your country if and when you manage to take the territory. You get the AE because this isn't Risk; you're not supposed to just roll around beating up everyone else simply because you can. You still have to convince people to take your claim seriously, before you can even begin the war. Otherwise, why should your own people even accept the war, much less any other country? Why should your soldiers march to their deaths just because you want more land? They shouldn't, and indeed they won't, at least not without a lot of reluctance/lack of morale and stability at home/hate from nearby nations if you declare a no-CB war, which is what you'd be doing if your diplomat wasn't spending all of that time convincing people in both high and low places that your reason for declaring a war is anything but complete and utter bull.

 

[riknap]

the side-effect of the OP's suggestion is that it actually makes it *desireable* to get caught, which means a *weaker* spy offence is ideal, which means modifiers that *weaken* your country's spy offence suddenly become a good thing.
that's like saying a soldier getting shot at is a good thing because it gives you an adrenaline rush which makes him "more effective" as a soldier, when the conventional ideal is to hit your enemy before they even spot you. what are they, Orks in the Warhammer-verse?

 

[Metal_Izanagi]

the side-effect of the OP's suggestion is that it actually makes it *desireable* to get caught, which means a *weaker* spy offence is ideal, which means modifiers that *weaken* your country's spy offence suddenly become a good thing.
that's like saying a soldier getting shot at is a good thing because it gives you an adrenaline rush which makes him "more effective" as a soldier, when the conventional ideal is to hit your enemy before they even spot you. what are they, Orks in the Warhammer-verse?

Well hey, if they get shot, that means less blood in their body, or if it's a cannonball, less body mass. That means they can run faster, and the troops should get bonuses to their Mobility stat.





...Right, guys?

 

[ero_sk]

Putin caught sending troops under cover to Ukraine:
"See? There are our citizens. We have right to invade and protect them immediately!"

 

[Metal_Izanagi]

Putin caught sending troops under cover to Ukraine:
"See? There are our citizens. We have right to invade and protect them immediately!"

New diplomatic option incoming in the next patch: Fabricate Putin. Converts a province in a neighboring country to your primary culture, and gives you a CB for "Protect Our Citizens". >_>

 

[Freudia]

What would make sense is if the diplomat returned immediately and was unable to complete their mission.

Sure, this makes sense. This is also terrible for gameplay. You're leaving your ability to actually play the game up to a dice throw, and that's awful gameplay with zero player agency.

 

[riknap]

Sure, this makes sense. This is also terrible for gameplay. You're leaving your ability to actually play the game up to a dice throw, and that's awful gameplay with zero player agency.

CK2 and all its MTTH-based actions begs to differ though

 

[cleef]

Suggestion: If you have 3 free Diplomats, you should be able to use all 3 to claim 3 separate provinces at the same time of the same country.

 

[delpiero1234]

and this thread belongs into the suggestions forum.

I read somewhere that backseat moderating is not allowed on the PDX forums when it comes to moving threads.
Take a look at this:

Please do not try to backseat moderate the threads of other users by calling for them to be moved.

It can generate resentment or confusion.

 

[Podtxt]

Disagree with OP, but it made me think. Maybe a little more fluff about discovering claim fabrication?

Event to agressor:
disloyal spy - pay some ducats or fabrication is immidiately discovered.
to defender, on fabrication discovery:
you can annouce it publicly and double the agressive expansion, or keep quiet and try to delay his actions
you can get a counter-claim on a bordering province for free, or more generic casus belli
you can force the agressor to pay diplomatic points or fail the action and disable fabricating on you for 10 years

You get the idea. Fabricating claims is a very common action, right now 100% chances of success and fully automatic. I would like to put more meat into it.

 

[Freudia]

CK2 and all its MTTH-based actions begs to differ though

Honestly, I've seen the CK2 claim fabrication and it looks atrocious. You can spend decades never getting the claim you want, and there's really nothing you can do about it. It's terrible gameplay that just happens to be masked by the fact that there's more to do in that game than just go to war, from what I understand, and it's also possible to get huge swathes of land without actually invading someone.

 

[ChildeR]

Honestly, I've seen the CK2 claim fabrication and it looks atrocious. You can spend decades never getting the claim you want, and there's really nothing you can do about it. It's terrible gameplay that just happens to be masked by the fact that there's more to do in that game than just go to war, from what I understand, and it's also possible to get huge swathes of land without actually invading someone.

Claims in CK2 are a Big Deal, because of the difference in how CBs work. It's fine that it takes a long and random time, and I haven't found it at all a bad system, even after playing EU4. However, the same system would not work in the context of EU4 claims.

 

[ChildeR]

What would make sense is if the diplomat returned immediately and was unable to complete their mission.

That would just be needless micro, assuming you could immediately send them back. And if you couldn't, you could just fabricate on other enemies, who should also have heard about your efforts (they got AE). Something like +X% claim fabrication time for Y years would be a more appropriate penalty IMO, if one is needed.

 

[Karnak]

I read somewhere that backseat moderating is not allowed on the PDX forums when it comes to moving threads.
Take a look at this:

Well to be fair, posting these threads on the frontpage is a good way to generate attention, even though it is very explicitly not allowed.
I think the OP is well deserving of the resentment that the community would feel, if any. It is only fair, is it not?

 

[ThePatriotOfDreumel]

What would make sense is if the diplomat returned immediately and was unable to complete their mission.

Then they should remove the AE penalty, since claims already have been nerfed into the ground.

 

[BrokenSky]

Sure, this makes sense. This is also terrible for gameplay. You're leaving your ability to actually play the game up to a dice throw, and that's awful gameplay with zero player agency.

Hence the current system.