Suggestion for Your Marketing/Sales Folks

[Anthropoid]

I'm not gonna go through and tabulate what I do and do not have at this point . . . suffice to say: I've got well over half of the expansions for CKII. Looks like the "main" expansions I lack are Holy Fury, Jade Dragon, Monks and Mystics, Horse Lords and Rajas. So that is 10/15 of the "main" expansions I bought. I might have even bought them unbundled I don't recall.

All this to say: I'm what you could call a "good customer," not a sucker, but not a penny-pincher.

So I been back to CKII a bit here lately and enjoying it, and had a few "trial run" games to get reoriented, and I'm just about to fire it up for a new playline this morning and I figure, hmmm . . . lets have a look at what content I don't have.

To put it simply: I seem to have two options: buy each pack individually (with prices ranging from $5 to $15+) OR, buy a bundle that includes many of products I've already bought. Nope, not gonna do either of those, especially not when these later expansions have "Mixed" Reviews on Steam, and certainly not at those price points.

If you guys and Steam could set up some code that would ascertain whatever an end user lacked in their library, and spit out two or three "bundle" deals at prices that clearly were better than either (a) buying each individually or (b) buying bundles including lots of items the user already owns, you'd get me back looking at the offer and quite possibly buying if it was a reasonable one.

Obviously, you guys didn't make all these nifty things just for them to sit on the shelves mouldering! Do you want to move units or not!?

 

[Anthropoid]

Let me put it another way . . .

That is too much.

 

[Anthropoid]

If I were to suggest a "pricing structure" which would move more units to you (and leaving aside the fact that, the listed retails for all this stuff strikes me as being a bit high to begin with . . .): provide a nice UI on the Steam store in which the customer can readily see everything, all the products they already own, all the products they don't, in a nice tabular format that is easily interactable.

Let the user "Create a Custom Bundle." Specify a minimum unit count or initial price point for a selection to qualify as a bundle.

User adds to the bundle just to the minimum, you tell 'em how much of a discount they are getting (AND! with a little tool-tip that says "If you add more to the bundles, you will get a bigger discount!").

So they add another item or two and WHATS THIS!? Discount went from 17% to 23%!? Holy Roman Emperor this is like a game or something!

User clicks in everything they want (excluding the crap they do NOT want from the canned "Imperial Bundle") and finally gets to a nice fat discount. I'd call "fat" and enticing 50%.
75% would be a YEP! BUY IT NOW!
65% would be a *shakes head for 3 seconds <mmmm, that does sound pretty good> . . . clicks BUY*

 

[Truewhit]

Don't get the music packs for a start.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

If you put the "Crusader KIngs II: Royal Collection" in your cart on Steam, it will subtract out the DLC you already own, and give you the 10% discount on the remaining DLC you don't own.

The Royal collection excludes all the Music packs, e-books, and Unit packs that can run up the price tag without changing core gameplay. The Royal collection should be ~$90 bucks cheaper without all that extra stuff.

 

[Anthropoid]

Don't get the music packs for a start.

Really!? That is a damn shame!

You know, I think I have at least one or maybe two of those already and I have to say, your comment has made me think: "do I even really NOTICE the music?" Not to say any of it is "bad" music, and maybe for such an intensely fussy game like this one music that is too "PRESENT" would be interfering. But yeah . . . I hardly notice the music in the game . . .

What is it about the music packs that makes you recommend against?

-=-=-=-
I'm tempted to start a new thread for this, but given I started out haggling (which has an inherent tendency to imply that the seller's goods are not 'good enough,' and which I did NOT intend to imply BTW), here goes:

Been binge playing a couple days now. Couple failed starts as a Bohemian count (Jizny Cechy in earliest start date . . . 796 A.D.?), then now my unmodded, Iron Man, achievements enabled start from the Count Mnata position. Actually a LOT easier than the character builder modded "House Draslavid" genius guy I tried!

Presently into my third ruler, Oldrich Premyslid. Mnata's son Vojen actually did VERY well, managed to become King of Bohemia by the age of about 35. Died suddenly at around 51, literally just about the perfect time; oldest son Oldrich had just turned 17 or 18 and was already Count of Zahlow. The way the "Loss of Title on Succession" dynamics are working in this culture/law set/update of the game threw me for a bit of a loop, but not a biggie: sauce for the goose!

What I'm building up to here is the simple statement that: THIS GAME IS A MASTERPIECE!

I'm thoroughly impressed by how much obvious attention to tweaking and balancing has gone on here! I can remember when this game first launched. It was in my estimation almost unplayable simply because it lacked good balancing, i.e., balance which tended toward historical but allowed for ahistorical with a strong challenge. Well they have "fixed that," at least in my experience so far. Still not gonna be hard to grind my way to global domination I suspect, but at least now it isn't just a "click this button/deploy this gambit to win" simulator!

The events, the characters, the more complex council/favor opinion systems, the better education system . . . so many "small" to medium-sized things have been added to the game and well-integrated into (Oh! the "Mercenary Band" thing! THAT IS AWESOME! . . . even if it doesn't actually yield great profits, at least it is very immersive and cool!).

Crusader Kings is all grown up and a master of its craft now.

About the only thing I would wish for is an overhaul to the combat/logistics/unit configuraton-training-equipping system. But I can see how tackling that is probably out of scope.
-=-=-=-=-
But now, let me link this back in to the theme of the thread . . . here we have a nearly ten year old game? Okay so . . . nearly 7 year old . . . A work of art by any stretch of the imagination and for the devout player, a true masterpiece waiting to be unravelled. I remember when it was launched, thinking to myself "This game has tremendous promise and maybe it will get there eventually . . ." Well it DID!

And I don't even know what neato features and accessories I'm still missing out on in the "27 other" DLC I haven't bought . . . and why is that?

PRICE

I know (well . . . strongly suspect anyway) Steam/Valve is prone to take on a heavy hand with such matters (??), but their days of monopoly are seemingly drawing to a close which honestly is good for all of us except perhaps Gabe and his inner circle . . . let me just cut to the chase here:

Paradox, I suggest you strive to re-price all your titles (ALL of them frankly! not just Crusader Kings and its accessories) to SELL!

I'm saying this not solely because a cheap skate douche bag (which . . . yeah, I suppose I am . . .) but because I KNOW how many gamers are also cheap skate douche bags! If one doesn't like that fact then one should be working in Hollywood or an actual fine arts studio or banking not game development!

I have watched you "grow up" Paradox and I am so proud of you . . . Now, lose that "our stuff is too precious to sell in orders of magnitude more unit volumes" hubris!

I paid about $10 for Minecraft. Played it thousands of hours. Interacted with some fun online acquaintances through that game. Mojang sold the IP for what was it? $2.75 BEELION!?!?

Imagine how many more units War in the Pacific Admiral Edition would sell if the boneheads at Matrix dropped the price on that one!

 

[Anthropoid]

If you put the "Crusader KIngs II: Royal Collection" in your cart on Steam, it will subtract out the DLC you already own, and give you the 10% discount on the remaining DLC you don't own.

The Royal collection excludes all the Music packs, e-books, and Unit packs that can run up the price tag without changing core gameplay. The Royal collection should be ~$90 bucks cheaper without all that extra stuff.

Ah thanks! That definitely "ups" the temptation to buy . . .

If it was an easy click to add "that" product (the bundle) to my Wish list and have it alert me when a sale or promotional happened, I would do so with baited breath.

But Price is still a barrier, and on top of that, I'm guessing that a couple of those neato packages would NOT integrate well with an ongoing Iron Man save . . . well I suppose for Iron Man you cannot turn on new stuff anyway. Which means (for you marketing and sales folks) there is an even larger INHERENT need to price the product "TO SELL!"

If an end-user likes the base product or their existing configuration of it, then that probably means that they have one or two ongoing play lines. Many or at least some of the DLC are not likely to be useful unless starting a new play line. Which means the prospective buyer is likely to be "patient" instead of eager . . .

I guess I'll add Holy Fury to my Wish list, maybe the other ones too . . . see if the Royal Collection goes on a sale sometime in future . . .

ADDIT: For cryin' out loud peoples! Just look at your reviews on your DLC product line!

POSTED: APRIL 5, 2018
Bought so much DLC I can't afford to feed the kids.

POSTED: JUNE 14, 2018
the worst thing they ever put out. The learning curve for this game was already high why do this. this type of content is what scares off new people. Its a pain in the AXX and i really didnt not enjoy this content.

 

[Serenity84]

especially not when these later expansions have "Mixed" Reviews on Steam,

Steam reviews are absolutely worthless

 

[Anthropoid]

Steam reviews are absolutely worthless

Except "when they are not" . . .

I agree with the premise that: Steams mostly unmoderated and easily "abused" system of customer reviewing has allowed for "flash mob" vandal mentalities to thrive. And some games/studios/publishers have fallen afoul of this, though I cannot name any to be sure.

However, two things: (a) there are far, FAR too many articulate, well-stated down vote reviews for many of these DLC for me to dismiss the "bad press" simply based on the sweeping generalization that "Steam reviews xux . . .", not to mention, the argument being made by many of these down voters is one which ring imminently true to me from my perspective on "this" side of the purchasing fence! (b) Many of the Indie games I patronize (Empyrion Galactic Survival, Interstellar Rift, Freeman Guerrilla Warfare, etc.) which sell to me under the caveat of "Early Access" and then proceed to enhance, improve and elaborate the product I paid for with FREE updates and expansions for years on end, and which charge modest prices, do NOT suffer from much in the way of flash mob down voting.

If you want to be loved by consumers, then you gotta demonstrate you are friendly to them. That doesn't mean selling yourself out of business as Marcus Persson will I'm sure avow! It just means: price your games in a way that a literal GAMER would price them, not in a way that some marketing/sales person with probably ZERO affiliation with gamer culture and only a very limited understanding of the actual marketplace would price them.

 

[magriboy0750]

I totally agree with OP,the affordability is a really,really big problem,even if i have the money,a number of persons doesn't have it.I think Paradox lose a lot of sales because of the too highest price.Also,in my opinion,Paradox should make some features available to everyone to improve them and make it more deeper from the time that the community asks.One of the most requested features is the retinues system from Legacy Of Rome.If Paradox has do it for Stellaris and EU4,why you won't make it for CK2,it would give a better game for everyone.Even if i have all the dlc,i think that the retinues must be in the base games for everyone can have the best possible experience.
Cordially.

 

[Evangeline]

I have everything for CK2, but I have your same exact problem with EUIV. I have the base game and three expansions already (bought just because I love CK2 and Stellaris so much). But I've never played it because I do not want to try out an outdated version with so many missing features (compared to the guides) in combination with the newest patches that sort of assume you have those features. So I've gotten recommendations on what DLC I really really need and which ones I'd really want and even after eliminating so so many AND using Kinguin instead of Steam, I'd still have to pay over 50 EURs on DLC just to get it to a more or less okay, up-to-date place. That's simply not acceptable (for me) for content that is already a few years old. It's okay for a brand new game.

Any DLC older than a year needs to be put into a 25 EUR (max) bundle so I can just buy them all at once without breaking the bank. Only the newest DLC should remain expensive.

 

[nightgerbil]

I to have eu4 and about half the dlcs. I too have never played it. One day I'll have all the dlcs for it and I can start to play. Its expensive though.

 

[Anthropoid]

That's the SPIRIT!

 

[Onisuzume]

Or one could simply wait until they're put on periodic sale?
E.g. next spring sale or something.
Unless you're in a hurry to get them, of course.

 

[Anthropoid]

Too late. They won. Perusing these boards, seeing screen caps of portraits and costumes of units that I had never seen (and which look quite nice), seeing discussions of game dynamics I didn't know about (and which ARE quite nice in the game), etc., . . . I couldn't take it any longer . . . I wanted to start a new Iron Man as Czechy Presmylids with the WHOLE game.

So I knuckled under and picked out all the "actual content" and game play DLC I lacked, and shelled out the bucks. I think it was in the $90 ballpark which is pretty insane given that the base game sells for $39.99 right now.

Not saying I have buyers regret. I'm glad I got the whole game now (well, not all the music packs and e-books, but I already had about half the music packs anyway), and so far I find every additional dimension to the game to be a valuable enhancement.

So, you got me Marketing/Sales folks! Ya nabbed another one!

You just gotta ask yourself: was it worth it?

 

[eastcoastceojam]

They usually have a Valentines Day sale that starts 4-5 days before that holiday. Maybe you can return the DLC, then re-buy it in ~10 days?

 

[Anthropoid]

They usually have a Valentines Day sale that starts 4-5 days before that holiday. Maybe you can return the DLC, then re-buy it in ~10 days?

Nah! I never return stuff if it functions and is quality enough.

I now own all the DLC except about the last six most recent music packs . . . well not the eBooks either, those don't show up in your "Content Settings" pane in the game launcher.

Of course, I have not nearly had time to experience all of them in full . . . and even by now I suspect not that many users actually HAVE! . . . I mean, lets be honest: IF you get into a game like this, you are bound to spend many, many hours just figuring out "learning the basics," before you move on to "figuring out good strategies," culminating in "mastering a few starting positions," which then opens up the possibility of "checking out different stuff," and eventually "experimentation/modding etc."

But what I've experienced is good stuff. The only game play DLC I guess I haven't really caught a glimpse of is Rajas, but even playing as a 769 Czech count I can see that the additional gameplay features (not to mention all the unit and portrait packs) are quality stuff. There were probably some issues immediately after they released (that is a standing thing for PDS for decades now) which explains some of the negative hype, and yes, I don't fully agree with their "nickel and dime 'em" product and pricing approach. So while I am critical of the marketing/sales aspect of the product line, they do seem to be good quality. $95 worth of good quality? Mmmm, I guess given that I could play the game an additional 200+ hours with heigtened interest as a result of the DLC, then maybe so . . . $0.50 per hour of play isn't so much I guess.

When I stop and consider that: the game is not likely to be a favorite for a broad swath of gamers, despite the fact it might get their attention (there are not a lot of low-cut blouse shots, or undulating posteriors or exploding heads . . .) BUT a relatively smaller but "rabid" base of fans will find the base game to be completely inadequate to sate their desires . . . maybe their marketing/packaging/pricing scheme isn't so bad after all . . .

But it does 'seem' offensive at first glance when the base game costs $39.99 and the "full game" can run you probably $150 to $200.

 

[KestrelGirl]

Wait for a sale and prices will be far more reasonable. Hell, I got the base game 75% off. I have purchased most of the DLC on sale, even the music and portrait packs - those end up being about a dollar apiece. I own most of the music, all portraits, and every major DLC except for Sunset Invasion, and I think I only bought one or two major DLC full price.

 

[Tryvenyal]

I would actually not have bought the bundle. That way you did not appriciate the content in it´s true context. Buying a DLC for CK2 is for me the yearly gaming- highlights, the full "unwrapping - spirit". In this "more is less" and would have ruined the spirit for me.

Why did you need them all at the same time? Unlike you want to start 3-4 paralell playthoughs, you will not benefit from all the 5 DLCs listed above in any single playthrough.

And in response to your pricing opinions: Games are expensive today. Buying a DLC or 2 each year that greatly expands a great game like CK is far less expensive than buying a new game with the same ratio. That would have been the alternative for me. An expensive one for sure and far less rewarding(for me). Looking at the pricetag for 10 of them at a time should be compared in this context.

Older DLCs should not become cheaper just because. The basegame could though, but they have been giving at away for free and might do that again

Game is old but very much improved. Even if game was released 2012, it´s a far more a new game than any other game released 2012 where no/a few improvements have been done.

Players still play World of Warcraft. it´s about 15 years old and cost yearly ~150€ just to play + any new expansion(another 30-50€ each). I don't blame them, I do activate my account at some times but playing CK2 is for more pricy

 

[SolSys]

So, you got me Marketing/Sales folks! Ya nabbed another one!

You just gotta ask yourself: was it worth it?

That is something you have to ask yourself.
In all honesty, after all that talk, I can't understand why you couldn't wait** for another 50% off sale. One is always around the corner.


**provided you are not terminal which does not seem like the case.


Disclaimer: I buy my games on discount since I know I probably won't have time to play them (including CK2) -- which may mean that I'm in worse position than you who may actually play them.
But still -- patience can be a virtue.