Suggestion for colonization and the 50% autonomy floor

[TheDarkMaster]

Why increase while at war ?? don't you think 75% LA is not enough ? Imagine if im playing sioux and if i have only 1 provinces, i will have no benefits. If its that i don't agree anymore :s

It increases because then you don't have the -0.1 peace modifier. Once you get a higher level government (like administrative monarchy) you won't gain autonomy under any circumstances anymore. If we didn't apply this, then those colonies would become fully profitable way too quickly.

 

[tom025]

if the LA is set at 75 % or more, its a long time to reach 0% LA. And imagine if i play aztecs, i am a despotic monarchy, i have to wait more than 150 years to change my government form (if im lucky) because of the tech cost and if i have to westernize...

I don't agree because colonial nation will be even more powerfull, it make no sence here because natives will be fucked up (without offense you)

 

[TheDarkMaster]

if the LA is set at 75 % or more, its a long time to reach 0% LA. And imagine if i play aztecs, i am a despotic monarchy, i have to wait more than 150 years to change my government form (if im lucky) because of the tech cost and if i have to westernize...

I don't agree because colonial nation will be even more powerfull, it make no sence here because natives will be fucked up (without offense you)

For balance purposes, that is necessary. Otherwise there is no reason for the Europeans to even colonize the New World. As your government gets better, you will later be on par with colonial nations, and then be better then them at integrating colonies.

They need to be able to reduce autonomy faster right away, since there is a very high chance that all of their provinces will be new colonies.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Alright, I've uploaded the mod, link in the OP.

 

[Payens]

What values have you settled on? Can't test it right now.

 

[tom025]

I test it, and personally i don't like it. its even worse for early game. So it wasn't what i expected.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

What values have you settled on? Can't test it right now.

85% base, -0.10 for the first 15 years, -0.05 after that for 100.

I test it, and personally i don't like it. its even worse for early game. So it wasn't what i expected.

The intention is that conquest or diplo vassalisation is the best form of expansion early on. Colonization is only good as a very long term plan.

 

[tom025]

yeah but some nations don't have a lot of choice for expand, they only have colonization ( north natives, some little asians and some africans)

Here this mod don't really fit what i want :/ Its possible that i ask for a personnal request ? (a second mod here)

 

[TheDarkMaster]

yeah but some nations don't have a lot of choice for expand, they only have colonization ( north natives, some little asians and some africans)

Here this mod don't really fit what i want :/ Its possible that i ask for a personnal request ? (a second mod here)

I did give a bonus to autonomy reduction of -0.1 per month if you have less then 5 provinces, should help give you a heartland. Is the modifier too small? Does it apply for too little time?

 

[Ralepozozaxe]

The opm natives and siberians are so poor that any negative they gain is a huge blow to them, even once they get 5 provinces. I've tested with Arapaho and even with 38 provinces in the Midwest they were only making 4 ducats a month with no expenses.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

The opm natives and siberians are so poor that any negative they gain is a huge blow to them, even once they get 5 provinces. I've tested with Arapaho and even with 38 provinces in the Midwest they were only making 4 ducats a month with no expenses.

Unless you're constantly at war, things should improve in your colonies after 15 years pass from when they finish. After 100, they're the same as any other provinces. Do you think they're starting at too high of autonomy?

 

[tom025]

I will try to play as a native more later, i did my test with an asian nation (and well, its was horrible). Even at peace you are stuck a 85 % LA, its very too much. I was just thinking of create a colonie, get around 55-65 LA and just let the LA drop a little you know ... (-0.10 each month when at peace).

After does colonial government start at the same amount ? (in the vanilla game, i just saw a colonial government get created and they got 0% at the begginning) its really for fucked natives.

Thats why i ask for a separate version or something else, because if with this i try to play as comanche for example (it will take me around 30-40 years to create a colony) and i will get no benefits in it...

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I will try to play as a native more later, i did my test with an asian nation (and well, its was horrible). Even at peace you are stuck a 85 % LA, its very too much. I was just thinking of create a colonie, get around 55-65 LA and just let the LA drop a little you know ... (-0.10 each month when at peace).

After does colonial government start at the same amount ? (in the vanilla game, i just saw a colonial government get created and they got 0% at the begginning) its really for fucked natives.

Thats why i ask for a separate version or something else, because if with this i try to play as comanche for example (it will take me around 30-40 years to create a colony) and i will get no benefits in it...

Colonials have the same starting level of autonomy, they can just decrease it faster thanks to their government type (though the capital always has 0 autonomy, if they move it, then there will be two provinces with 0 autonomy). The only chances I can see that might work to balance things is to either have the autonomy level start lower (like 50-60%) or to make the small nation bonus better. Otherwise it defeats the entire point of the penalty in the first place.

 

[spartacus861]

The hard-coded 50% autonomy makes colonization terrible for any country that isn't already wealthy. Playing as Ryukyu I took exploration to colonize the local territory and the 50% autonomy makes the whole process pointless. Kelang (the north 1/3 of Canton) is going to take more than 100 years to pay for itself.

 

[tom025]

I'm agree with spartacus, thats why i want an other version. A version where all colony will start at 50 LA and they could decrease to 0 as the time go on. But for example if spain colonize in america, their first colony will get the old overseas penality (75 LA) like before (just the time they ddon't create a colonial nation). I dont want a thing too complicated...
But I like the modifier that give -0.10 LA to small country, its a good bonus at the beginning

 

[Payens]

Here's an idea:
Disable buttons*(suggestion below).
Start at 50%.
No negative/positive modifier.
Once 0% reached, buttons reactivate.

How to disable buttons without disabling buttons? (love that sentence)
Give a colonized province a modifier: [Not fully populated].
While a province has [Not fully populated], if the decrease autonomy button is pressed, add 25% autonomy and a -10 unrest modifier for 30 years to the province.
While a province has [Not fully populated], if the increase autonomy button is pressed, remove 25% autonomy and add a +10 unrest modifier for 30 years to the province.
While a province has [Not fully populated], if LA reaches 0, remove [Not fully populated].
(This method should obviously only be a workaround until you can just disable/enable the buttons at will)

This basically disables the button until LA reaches 0, by going zero-sum with the modifiers.
This might be a more desirable way behavior for colonies.

Personally, I do like the current implementation. 100 years seems reasonable to me, keeping in mind that I start with a non-powerhouse nation to begin with. That it will be easier later on makes perfect sense. If you keep current implementation, I think it is acceptable to bump the <5 province bonus a bit. Perhaps to -0.20, to put it on-par with colonial nations government form.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Here's an idea:
Disable buttons*(suggestion below).
Start at 50%.
No negative/positive modifier.
Once 0% reached, buttons reactivate.

How to disable buttons without disabling buttons? (love that sentence)
Give a colonized province a modifier: [Not fully populated].
While a province has [Not fully populated], if the decrease autonomy button is pressed, add 25% autonomy and a -10 unrest modifier for 30 years to the province.
While a province has [Not fully populated], if the increase autonomy button is pressed, remove 25% autonomy and add a +10 unrest modifier for 30 years to the province.
While a province has [Not fully populated], if LA reaches 0, remove [Not fully populated].
(This method should obviously only be a workaround until you can just disable/enable the buttons at will)

This basically disables the button until LA reaches 0, by going zero-sum with the modifiers.
This might be a more desirable way behavior for colonies.

Personally, I do like the current implementation. 100 years seems reasonable to me, keeping in mind that I start with a non-powerhouse nation to begin with. That it will be easier later on makes perfect sense. If you keep current implementation, I think it is acceptable to bump the <5 province bonus a bit. Perhaps to -0.20, to put it on-par with colonial nations government form.

Near as I can tell, you can't actually check to see if the button has been pressed. You might not even be able to check to see if those modifiers are in place. As for the suggestion, it doesn't really work, since then the modifier will only last 20 years if the nation is at peace once they have an advanced form of government. It's simply too short of a time for the negatives to be in place.

 

[tom025]

the ideas of payens was good and simple. But you don't agree with it TheDarkMaster ?

 

[TheDarkMaster]

the ideas of payens was good and simple. But you don't agree with it TheDarkMaster ?

I can't do it, there is no effective way to mod the buttons to change autonomy. Besides, the modifier lasts too short of a time, there is no reason not to colonize on the same continent instead of conquering/diplo-vassalizing instead. The only reason the patch introduced the 50% floor was to make it so that wasn't the case anymore, and having the autonomy drop that fast doesn't fix that.

 

[tom025]

Yeah but they broke little nation, they cant colonise because they dont have benefits. After if you compare, europe and asia are much more rich in term of manpower and tax, especially manpower !
i will try to find a way to go through this floor of 50 %, its a game breaker for me. Especially when you saw that a colonial nation could reach 0% and not a native american, its not balanced.

Well, i think i can't convince you to change anything :/ well good work for your mod