Suggestion for colonization and the 50% autonomy floor

[TheDarkMaster]

I've created the mod now. Steam Workshop page: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=336502128&searchtext=
Paradox forum thread: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ini-mod-Alternative-Colonial-Autonomy-(V-1.8)

I've been playing around for a bit with the autonomy floor on colonies removed, with newly finished colonies having their autonomy set to 90%. It seems to work quite well, as those provinces start off with very little income that slowly gets better over time as the province is fully settled. CNs also already get a bonus -0.2% each month for their government type, so they aren't significantly affected by this change. Besides, they already started with provinces at 75% autonomy, while same continent colonizers instantly got 50%.

If people really like this, I can create a mod and put it on the Steam workshop.

New version
-Starting province autonomy is now 50%
-Small nation bonus to reduce autonomy increased from -0.1 to -0.2.

 

[nicechinos]

Would it be Ironman compatible (sorry for newb question; didn't encounter checksum before)? I'd probably start with 75% for same continent colonization. Apparently communication and management of the same continent colonies was better than New World's ones.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Would it be Ironman compatible (sorry for newb question; didn't encounter checksum before)? I'd probably start with 75% for same continent colonization. Apparently communication and management of the same continent colonies was better than New World's ones.

No, this wouldn't be ironman compatible. The point of the actual change is to nerf same continent colonization without adversely affecting same continent colonization too much.

 

[tom025]

I am very interested by your idea personnally, if you could put it at a mod it could be nice.
After if you could explain very carefully what nation type will get what amount of autonomy and stuff. A very precise explanation in fact...

(sorry for the bad english, im french) But your idea really enjoy me ! I will follow this thread

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I am very interested by your idea personnally, if you could put it at a mod it could be nice.
After if you could explain very carefully what nation type will get what amount of autonomy and stuff. A very precise explanation in fact...

(sorry for the bad english, im french) But your idea really enjoy me ! I will follow this thread

Chaque nation a le point de départ de 90 % d'autonomie. Les nations coloniales ont un gouvernement que done une réduction supplémentaire de 0,2% autonomie de chaque mois.

In English, every single colony will have a starting autonomy of 90% when it finishes. Colonial nations just get an extra 0.2% reduction each month that other nations don't get to make CNs more profitable for the overlord.

If I could, I'd also add a modifier to newly finished colonies that gives -5 unrest and +0.05 autonomy each month for 50 years thanks to being a new colony, if that modifier also prevented reducing autonomy.

 

[tom025]

hum ok i get it for colonial nations, and what about americans natives and asians in term of Local autonomy on their colonised lands ? did they loose their 50 % local autonomy ?

PS: thanks for the translation in French

 

[TheDarkMaster]

hum ok i get it for colonial nations, and what about americans natives and asians in term of Local autonomy on their colonised lands ? did they loose their 50 % local autonomy ?

PS: thanks for the translation in French

Dans mes tests, je l'ai enlevé les limites de la autonomy de 50 %. Je dois faire plus de tests.

English: In my tests so far, I've removed that limit. I still need to make more tests to see how things go, but right now the autonomy seems to be going away too fast. I really need to add more limiters on it going away, but it's hard to know what is ideal since the higher governments remove autonomy too.

 

[tom025]

Ok take your time, for have the best result. Personnally i could wait its not a problem. Thanks for the work

 

[Payens]

How about, upon colonization, the province gets a modifier that causes LA +0.10 for 30 years and another that causes LA +0.10 for 10 years.
Meaning that, for higher government forms (-.2 at peacetime) there would be no change for 10 years, then a slow decline in LA.
For government forms that don't reduce LA, it would still be going up for the first 10 years (of course you can reduce those 25% manually to offset that). Then it wouldn't move for another 20 years before it would reduce normally.

In game it would still give most Europeans an edge due to government forms at start or easier access to new government forms. CNs do have -.2 to offset the first 10 years in their government form iirc..
Natives would have an increase in LA for 10 years and then 20 years of no-change before it ticks down normally.

Depending on what you want to achieve, you can add another -.1 LA modifier that lasts 50 years, this would really slow down the integration of a newly colonized province.

In short: Add modifier upon finishing colonizing a province:
- Province +0.10 LA for 10 years
- Province +0.10 LA for 30 years
- Province +0.10 LA for 50 years
Will make reduce LA very hard at first, easier as time goes by. After 50 years it's a normal province (but it probably still has high LA at this point).

Edit: I didn't specify that, if you go with those 3 modifiers that add lots of LA, you shouldn't block the button to manually reduce the LA. Basically the stronger modifiers make it acceptable to not arbitrarily block a game mechanic (reduce/increase LA).

Edit the second: I didn't specify that I was thinking of a 50% LA starting value in my idea. 90% with the modifiers would keep it unusuable for some 100 years if you don't have a centralized government form. 50% would keep it at around 30-50% for 100 years for the native governments, and lower for CNs. Which seemed fair to me.^^

 

[TheDarkMaster]

If I do that, it would be best to have the province start at a lower level of autonomy, like 75-85%, so that you don't quickly end up with a 100% autonomy province that you can't get anything out of after awhile. My initial thought was giving a long lasting +0.05 modifier, which would mean that while at peace it goes down by 0.05, but when at war it goes up by 0.05. Of course, as soon as the admin monarchy and republic unlock, you've got the -0.1 monthly reduction added to the mix which throws things off and makes it hard to effectively balance this. Some sort of limit is needed, but it's hard to say how long it should last, and how big it needs to be. I don't want colonies to be completely worthless after they finish.

+0.1 for ten years is +12 autonomy. If autonomy starts at 90, that will bring you up to 100% really fast.
+0.2 for being at war as well sets it at +24, which means that you have to start under 76% to avoid hitting 100%.
-0.1 will drop a 90% autonomy province to 0 in 75 years. -0.2 will drop a 90% autonomy province to 0 in 37.5 years. -0.05 is 150 years, and -0.15 is 50 years.
-Having one modifier that lasts for x years that will exceed the rate of autonomy reduction only serves to slow the time it takes for the modifier to disappear by x years.


Using the reduce autonomy action gives +10 provincial unrest for 30 years, which promotes large uprisings in your colonial provinces, exactly what I don't want to have happening, since then your small cities of a thousand or two are sending 10,000 man regiments in your direction. I'd much rather a large unrest reduction, and to make the option to reduce autonomy in your new colonies be impossible. This is in addition to the decrease in autonomy reduction.

 

[tom025]

i was personally thinking about something much easier like, your colony will begin at around 75-85 % LA and slowly decrease other the time (- 0.10 in peace time i think) for natives colony as colonial nations colonies, it took around 65 years to have 0 LA for a native, its much quicker for a colonial nation because they have -0.20 with their government. Guys please dont go too far away, dont create something too complicated ...

But well i will check what you say, but don't try to do anything that is too hard to understand

 

[Payens]

Using the reduce autonomy action gives +10 provincial unrest for 30 years, which promotes large uprisings in your colonial provinces, exactly what I don't want to have happening, since then your small cities of a thousand or two are sending 10,000 man regiments in your direction. I'd much rather a large unrest reduction, and to make the option to reduce autonomy in your new colonies be impossible. This is in addition to the decrease in autonomy reduction.

Not wanting bigger rebel stacks than there were people living in the province makes sense, I didn't quite consider that. Good point.

I thought of it this way:
Start with 50% LA.
Inca, no -x LA modifier government form:
Peace:
year 0 : -25% LA from button. Would be at 25LA.
year 10: +24 LA from modifiers. Would be at 49LA.
year 30: +24 LA from modifiers. - 25% from button. 48LA.
year 50: +0 from modifiers. 48LA.
year 60: -12 from peace reduction. -25% from button. 11LA.
War:
year 0 : -25% LA from button. Would be at 25LA.
year 10: +36 LA from modifiers. Would be at 61LA.
year 30: +48 LA from modifiers. - 25% from button. 84LA.
year 50: +24 from modifiers. 96LA.
year 60: -0 from peace reduction. -25% from button. 71LA.
Now, if you really are at war for 60 years straight you should have very high LA in colonies in my opinion. If you are at peace they will be nicely integrated after some 70 years. Short wars throw you back only a short time, too.

Now let's look at a colonial nation, which has -0.20 a month:
Peace:
year 0 : -25% LA from button. Would be at 25LA.
year 10: +0 LA from modifiers. Would be at 25LA.
year 30: -24 LA from modifiers. - 25% from button. -25LA (! so no need for button).
year 50: -48 from modifiers. -73LA.
year 60: -48 from peace reduction. -25% from button. -[a lot]LA.
Basically after some 20-30 years, a peaceful CN will have 0% LA if they use the button. If they don't, it would be some 30-40 years.
War:
year 0 : -25% LA from button. Would be at 25LA.
year 10: +12 LA from modifiers. Would be at 37LA.
year 30: +0 LA from modifiers. - 25% from button. 37LA.
year 50: -24 from modifiers. 13LA.
year 60: -24 from peace reduction. -25% from button. -36LA.
Basically, the CN would take another 20 years to reduce LA to 0 if it was at constant war. Unlikely to happen. But still a reasonable timeframe I think.
Being at war should take the focus away from developping new provinces, so I think that's all fine and good.

Now, as to the rebel problem: You could add a -10 unrest to the 50 years modifier. Or a -5 unrest to each modifier, to simulate that as colonies grow, they become more and more like a normal province. But at first they are very easy to control.

Anyways, hope it helps illustrate my idea a bit and perhaps even you like it, who knows

Edit:

i was personally thinking about something much easier like, your colony will begin at around 75-85 % LA and slowly decrease other the time (- 0.10 in peace time i think) for natives colony as colonial nations colonies, it took around 65 years to have 0 LA for a native, its much quicker for a colonial nation because they have -0.20 with their government. Guys please dont go too far away, dont create something too complicated ...

But well i will check what you say, but don't try to do anything that is too hard to understand

Just bear with me.
A province gets 3 modifiers applied to it. They all time out automatically.
You can use the province like a normal province, no buttons are blocked - so no need to think of it as a different thing. It's just a province.
Going to war will make reducing LA very slow for natives the first 50 years.
That's basically all there is to know for the player.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Well, like I said, I don't want there to be unrest in those provinces, but at the same time I don't want it to be basically mandatory to reduce autonomy in your provinces (especially if there is no reason not to, thanks to a -10 unrest modifier). So let's try and work with a system that assumes that you can't use the reduce unrest button, okay?

Remember as well that the administrative governments unlock quite quickly in the game. The only people who aren't going to have access to them fairly early on in the colonization game are natives. Tribes will have them once they reform their government, and Europeans that relocate to the New world will have that government right away too. Those are the two nation types we really need to watch out for on balance.

I've been thinking that maybe two modifiers are the way to go. One for -0.05 monthly that lasts a very long time (upwards of 100 years), and one that's -0.03 to -0.05 that lasts for 10-15 years. Since the overseas penalty to autonomy is min 75%, that will be our base autonomy in provinces, autonomy will never start higher then that.

 

[Payens]

Well, like I said, I don't want there to be unrest in those provinces, but at the same time I don't want it to be basically mandatory to reduce autonomy in your provinces (especially if there is no reason not to, thanks to a -10 unrest modifier). So let's try and work with a system that assumes that you can't use the reduce unrest button, okay?

Remember as well that the administrative governments unlock quite quickly in the game. The only people who aren't going to have access to them fairly early on in the colonization game are natives. Tribes will have them once they reform their government, and Europeans that relocate to the New world will have that government right away too. Those are the two nation types we really need to watch out for on balance.

I've been thinking that maybe two modifiers are the way to go. One for -0.05 monthly that lasts a very long time (upwards of 100 years), and one that's -0.03 to -0.05 that lasts for 10-15 years. Since the overseas penalty to autonomy is min 75%, that will be our base autonomy in provinces, autonomy will never start higher then that.

I think you're right. The way I made it pretty much mandatory to reduce unrest is not the way to go. It just removes choice and pushes people down a certain path, possibly resulting in annoying repetitive actions (reduce every 30 years) meaning people will have to keep in mind when 30 years are over for each province. Not ideal the more I think about it.

I like your proposition of having a small penalty (.05) last for 100 years or more. I suppose you meant +0.05, right?
Coupling it with a second for a shorter periods, basically the time of growth of the province, is pretty good.
So if you were to make it +0.05 for 100 years and +0.05 for 15 years, starting at 75% LA, this would result in:
Natives (-0.00 LA a month): 120 years of peace time. ((if button enabled after 100 years, it's at 0 LA if you use the button at year 100)).
Higher governments (-0.10 LA a month): 46.67 years of peace time.
Colonial nations (-0.20 LA a month): 31 years of peace time.

This is assuming you block the buttons to decrease LA.

Personally I think that under this formula natives take too long, but it removed micro management in form of clicking the button every 30 years, so that's good.

I guess it's up to you how much time you want it all to take. Either way, I'm eager to try out your mod when it's done. Just giving my input here, but untimately it's up to you to make the choice

Thanks for tackling the task of addressing LA for colonies either way, looking forward to it!

 

[TheDarkMaster]

The only problem right now is that there isn't a way for me to disable the button, near as I can tell.

 

[Payens]

The only problem right now is that there isn't a way for me to disable the button, near as I can tell.

Oh, that's disappointing.
Now, I never modded EU4. So I can't really help you on that one.
But if you can't disable the button, you need to put a bigger penalty on it for it to have a similar effect.
Not wanting to bug you, but if you were to make a mod that does the 3 modifier thing I proposed earlier, I'd be eager to test that in an Inca game to see how it turns out.

If you want to tailor your values (0.05 for 15 and 0.10 for 100 years) for a mechanic that allows the buttons, bumping the value for 100 years to 0.17 should have a similar effect (0.07*12*30 is 21 LA. The button is -25 LA in 30 years if you don't miss it when available, which players probably would^^ So it will result in 0-4 less LA with the adjusted values but with use of the buttons).

 

[tom025]

Your stuff seem to be complicated guys :/

Gave me a proper example please, i'm playing aztec, i colonize a provinces, so i will get 75 LA (+25% more than normal value at this moment if i understand what you say) and after what will be the process ?

 

[solidprice]

It Should Be Removed. You already get overseas penalty now.

I guess I'm just a casual player and not the ai hard Ironman player who can take a hre opm and WC.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Your stuff seem to be complicated guys :/

Gave me a proper example please, i'm playing aztec, i colonize a provinces, so i will get 75 LA (+25% more than normal value at this moment if i understand what you say) and after what will be the process ?

Your new colony will have an autonomy level of 75% or 85% autonomy (I haven't decided yet which). For the first 15 years of the colony being built, autonomy will not decrease, but it will increase if you are at war. After that, it will slowly decrease while at peace, but increase while at war. 100 years after the colony finishes, it will act like any other colony.

It Should Be Removed. You already get overseas penalty now.

I guess I'm just a casual player and not the ai hard Ironman player who can take a hre opm and WC.

The whole point of the 50% cap in the first place is to make colonizing places that don't get the 75% autonomy penalty not the best possible way of expanding. The nerf also has to not affect colonizing overseas, which is already balanced.

 

[tom025]

Why increase while at war ?? don't you think 75% LA is not enough ? Imagine if im playing sioux and if i have only 1 provinces, i will have no benefits. If its that i don't agree anymore :s