• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Pellucid

Ottoboos get out! Reeee!
111 Badges
Mar 17, 2005
3.564
3.078
  • War of the Roses
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Majesty 2
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Lead and Gold
  • Legio
I think that the changing nature of culture has always been one of the weaknesses of the EU system of representing the world. I mean heck, the very fact that certain culture-related debates are verboten on this forum is proof enough of that. Now that we're talking about better modeling the New World, does anyone else think it's time for a new modeling of culture?

I mean, yes, many of the USA's founding fathers would call themselves English or British, but not all of them would, and if you look at Mexico, how many people during their founding would call themselves Spaniards or Aztecs? Probably not many at all.

What I propose is that certain combinations of culture groups occasionally spawn "evolved" cultures on their borders. For the sake of not starting a firestorm, I'd say we ought to avoid implementing a whole lot of these cultures in Europe, but they'd work great in the Americas. For example, in any province with with a British culture which borders a province with a North American culture group, there'd be an increasingly high chance of those provinces switching culture to "Yankee." The "Yankee" culture group would then continue to encroach into nearby North American or British provinces. The controller of those provinces would need to weigh the pros and cons of pushing that culture back using diplomatic points or letting it continue to spread, causing a growing rift between those settlers and the natives of the countries they're moving into.

Here's a short list of cultures and the cultures they could evolve into, just off the top of my head:

British + North American = Yankee
British + North American + Province Produces Cotton = Dixie
French + North American = Creole
Iberian + North American = Dominican
Iberian + Central American = Mexican
Germanic + North American = Palatine
African + North American = Vodun


I'm sure that someone with more cultural history knowledge could make these better and add like a billion more, but that's just off the top of my head. Anyone else have ideas to represent the divide between settlers and their native lands?
 

Incompetent

Euroweenie in Exile
56 Badges
Sep 22, 2003
8.813
7.342
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • For The Glory
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
This would be nice flavour in theory, but what difference would it make in practice? If a colonial states provinces flip from say English to American, then it will just end up with American accepted culture, making no big difference. You'd need to back it up with some special setup that made provinces with colonial cultures constantly agitate for independence, so that they became unmanageable for the colonial regime.

Also, the cultures would have to be dynamically generated to cover all eventualities (with names like New World Baltic and so on).
 

Labrynian Rebel

Paragon
42 Badges
Sep 19, 2013
1.213
377
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
Well it would make retaking colonies harder after independence, which is how it should be
 

thesodality

Sforza Prince
15 Badges
May 13, 2010
194
1
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
I'm all for expanding the culture system but at what point do these evolutions occur?

I don't believe Americans really began to identify themselves as Yankee, Dixie, etc until around the end of EU4's timeframe.
 

Sun_Wu

Empress
89 Badges
Mar 8, 2012
7.923
3.324
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Cities in Motion
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
I think that the changing nature of culture has always been one of the weaknesses of the EU system of representing the world. I mean heck, the very fact that certain culture-related debates are verboten on this forum is proof enough of that. Now that we're talking about better modeling the New World, does anyone else think it's time for a new modeling of culture?

I mean, yes, many of the USA's founding fathers would call themselves English or British, but not all of them would, and if you look at Mexico, how many people during their founding would call themselves Spaniards or Aztecs? Probably not many at all.

What I propose is that certain combinations of culture groups occasionally spawn "evolved" cultures on their borders. For the sake of not starting a firestorm, I'd say we ought to avoid implementing a whole lot of these cultures in Europe, but they'd work great in the Americas. For example, in any province with with a British culture which borders a province with a North American culture group, there'd be an increasingly high chance of those provinces switching culture to "Yankee." The "Yankee" culture group would then continue to encroach into nearby North American or British provinces. The controller of those provinces would need to weigh the pros and cons of pushing that culture back using diplomatic points or letting it continue to spread, causing a growing rift between those settlers and the natives of the countries they're moving into.

Here's a short list of cultures and the cultures they could evolve into, just off the top of my head:

British + North American = Yankee
British + North American + Province Produces Cotton = Dixie
French + North American = Creole
Iberian + North American = Dominican
Iberian + Central American = Mexican
Germanic + North American = Palatine
African + North American = Vodun


I'm sure that someone with more cultural history knowledge could make these better and add like a billion more, but that's just off the top of my head. Anyone else have ideas to represent the divide between settlers and their native lands?
Because I'm sure Quebeckers would love to be called creole, Puerto Ricans and Cubans would love to be called Mexicans, tobacco growing Virginians would love to be called Yankees et cetera. Also, Vodun is a syncretic religion, not a culture.
 

Dakilla TM

Field Marshal
39 Badges
Jul 25, 2013
4.040
1.819
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
It's a nice idea but it would require too much work to implement for very little gain. Cultures are very diverse, even more in the new world. What would we call Prussians who settled in a cotton province in central america? Mexicans? Dixie? German immigrants? It's just too complicated. But it is a nice thought
 

Pellucid

Ottoboos get out! Reeee!
111 Badges
Mar 17, 2005
3.564
3.078
  • War of the Roses
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Majesty 2
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Lead and Gold
  • Legio
Because I'm sure Quebeckers would love to be called creole, Puerto Ricans and Cubans would love to be called Mexicans, tobacco growing Virginians would love to be called Yankees et cetera. Also, Vodun is a syncretic religion, not a culture.
Nothin's perfect. Vodun was just an idea for a non-historical culture, since Africans never colonized North America and all...
 

Vishaing

MM Prime Minister in Exile
12 Badges
Jan 25, 2008
1.420
723
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
This was in Magna Mundi the Mod, so I don't think it would be very difficult.
 

Talq

Field Marshal
51 Badges
Sep 7, 2009
4.795
1.007
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Leaving aside that CoP is going to change the environment of this, you are going to need a whole bunch of made-up cultures (because - assuming you plonk them in the same culture group - a lot of territories are going to be sitting on -15% different culture penalties, and you hardly want an incentive for players to colonize anywhere EXCEPT historically), unless you key it off colonial region. Of course, in the later case you have the odd situation of 2 different europeans producing colonies of the same culture.

Of course, if colonial nations are part of 1.4 (I've seen conflicting reports) this will have even less impact.