Suggestion: Buff "Coordinated Strike" operation A LOT

[Simon_9732495]

The "Coordinated Strike" operation has high requirements (high network, many spies for operation, wargoal needed) and its effects are only short. (3 days)

Therefore the bonuses it gives can be VERY powerful.

I would suggest that you can choose between:

- Bomber (Nav, Tac, Cas) Port Strike Damage + 1000% (This is the pearl harbour thing. Make it possible to severly damage a fleet stationed in a port)

- Fighter Air Damge +1000% decreasing slower if no enemy air (This is the barbarossa thing. Soviet can decide to not put up planes and fight for 14 days under red air or put up air and have heavily losses. This is also useful for Naval invasions to get green air)

- Mountain Attack Terrain Debuff = 0% (If you attack a land with a defense line in the mountains you can for 3 days attack in mountains as if it was plains. Useful to break a mountain defense line)

- Land Fort Attack Debuff = 0% (If you attack a land with a defense line with forts you can for 3 days attack the forts as if it was not there.)

- Supply Grace +1000% (You can go deep into enemy territory without supplies, e.g. to secure a port.

- Naval Light Attack, Hard Attack and Piercing +100% for 14 days (To get a big advantage if you expect a big naval battle soon in the war.)

- Sub Detection = 100% (For the first 3 days of the war the subs are 100% visible.)


What's your opinion?

 

[SmashingQuasar]

I think that makes it so underwhelming is it's duration. Because of the way the AI keeps division-scum all the time and how the front line gets completely disorganized if you do not micro manage it yourself, 3 days are basically nothing. I tried it once, it was really not good enough to do anything, I never used it again.
Honestly, aside from the collaboration building, I wouldn't even bother investing in anything else. The fact that you can only have 3 spies if not in a faction creates a situation where you just don't want to invest in anything. If you try to steal any blueprint you will loose all of your intelligence and stealing a blueprint is random and takes ages.
I agree with you but they should really just rebalance all of the operations. Most of them are pointless.

 

[Riekopo]

Yes, they need to fix it. It sucks.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...uff-coordinated-strike-mission-a-lot.1370416/

 

[Secret Master]

3 days are basically nothing.

I don't understand this. 72 hours is a long time tactically. It's the difference between breaking a fort line and not breaking one.

Maybe it should have different times for air, naval, and land? We can't wipe out air forces on the ground, so 3 days is not enough air missions. And it doesn't cover the length of time for any kind of real naval battle.

 

[sekelsenmat]

- Bomber (Nav, Tac, Cas) Port Strike Damage + 1000% (This is the pearl harbour thing. Make it possible to severly damage a fleet stationed in a port)

- Fighter Air Damge +1000% decreasing slower if no enemy air (This is the barbarossa thing. Soviet can decide to not put up planes and fight for 14 days under red air or put up air and have heavily losses. This is also useful for Naval invasions to get green air)

Seems a good idea. Although I think it would be simpler if it just killed for example 10% of the enemy airforce, but never more then you have planes assigned in air zones over the enemy, to represent planes being killed on the ground. The port damage also could simply sink 50% of the ships in a particular port.

- Mountain Attack Terrain Debuff = 0%

(If you attack a land with a defense line in the mountains you can for 3 days attack in mountains as if it was plains. Useful to break a mountain defense line)

- Land Fort Attack Debuff = 0% (If you attack a land with a defense line with forts you can for 3 days attack the forts as if it was not there.)

- Naval Light Attack, Hard Attack and Piercing +100% for 14 days (To get a big advantage if you expect a big naval battle soon in the war.)

These are all fantasy stuff, completely unrealistic and without any basis on the real world.

I'd prefer if the game at least resambles reality somewhat.

 

[Simon_9732495]

These are all fantasy stuff, completely unrealistic and without any basis on the real world.

I'd prefer if the game at least resambles reality somewhat.

I'm just bringing ideas into discussion.

The mountain one I think of coordinated strike means the attacker having perfect intel of the mountains, knowing everything about the terrain. That yould be implemented by removing the terrain debuffs for a short time.

Same with forts. Maybe the forts already have explosives on them that are ignited at attack.

And for the naval battle I'm thinking of the edge, if you suprise attack a fleet, knowing everthing about them, them knowing nothing about you.

 

[KDEstroy]

I don't understand this. 72 hours is a long time tactically. It's the difference between breaking a fort line and not breaking one.

Maybe it should have different times for air, naval, and land? We can't wipe out air forces on the ground, so 3 days is not enough air missions. And it doesn't cover the length of time for any kind of real naval battle.

The problem is, port strikes only happen once per day, and only targets one ship per sortie. With three days of port strikes, you can sink at most 3 BB's. Obviously Pearl Harbor bombing did far more damage than that.

 

[sekelsenmat]

I'm just bringing ideas into discussion.

The mountain one I think of coordinated strike means the attacker having perfect intel of the mountains, knowing everything about the terrain. That yould be implemented by removing the terrain debuffs for a short time.

Same with forts. Maybe the forts already have explosives on them that are ignited at attack.

And for the naval battle I'm thinking of the edge, if you suprise attack a fleet, knowing everthing about them, them knowing nothing about you.

A flat bonus to land attack would be much more realistic.

Forts and mountains still help, even if you are surprised.

 

[Feeblezak]

All this mission was good for was killing off unwanted agents to hire different ones.

Now agents can be dismissed it serves no purpose whatsoever.

Definitely needs a look at. I like the ideas in the op. Would give it some potency.

 

[Secret Master]

The problem is, port strikes only happen once per day, and only targets one ship per sortie. With three days of port strikes, you can sink at most 3 BB's. Obviously Pearl Harbor bombing did far more damage than that.

Well, that's why I'm thinking maybe the air portion is timed wrong. There's not enough time to do enough damage with port strikes or killing planes.

 

[Riekopo]

The problem is, port strikes only happen once per day, and only targets one ship per sortie. With three days of port strikes, you can sink at most 3 BB's. Obviously Pearl Harbor bombing did far more damage than that.

Yeah that needs to be changed at least for Coordinated Strike Port Strikes. Pearl Harbor had two waves of aircraft and the third was canceled.

 

[SmashingQuasar]

I don't understand this. 72 hours is a long time tactically. It's the difference between breaking a fort line and not breaking one.

Maybe it should have different times for air, naval, and land? We can't wipe out air forces on the ground, so 3 days is not enough air missions. And it doesn't cover the length of time for any kind of real naval battle.

In real life, yes, in Hearts of Iron IV, no. Most of the time battles last for days or weeks especially when playing countries who need this kind of mechanic the most (minor countries or gimped countries). If your battles are already resolved in 3 or 4 days it means you have most likely already broken the entrenchment of the enemy and you can just keep pushing over and over again.

Just take the SCW for example, it is really common for battles to last for an extremely long time. Also, coordinated strike is a risky mission and has a good chance of you losing agents. Even if it is an agent captured, by the time you free him you have wasted SO MUCH time that it is just not worth even considering.

 

[Holdy]

Does anyone actually know where to find the file for coordinated strike? So I could possibly mod these kind of buffs myself. Also I am really interested what the current buff for it actually is.

 

[Secret Master]

minor countries or gimped countries

I don't think the mechanic should be balanced around making it possible for minor countries to do world conquests.

Just take the SCW for example, it is really common for battles to last for an extremely long time.

Because there are special mechanics related to prepared and unprepared offensives in the SCW. That's not something that happens with other countries.

I don't think this mechanic should be balanced around making it possible for either side in the SCW to win super fast. It defeats the purpose of the entire SCW rework.

 

[SmashingQuasar]

I don't think the mechanic should be balanced around making it possible for minor countries to do world conquests.



Because there are special mechanics related to prepared and unprepared offensives in the SCW. That's not something that happens with other countries.

I don't think this mechanic should be balanced around making it possible for either side in the SCW to win super fast. It defeats the purpose of the entire SCW rework.

I get your point, I appreciate that the SCW is more consistent now and lasts longer. I would also appreciate the Ethiopian war to last until it's average real date for what it's worth.
The point is that Coordinated Strike is designed in a way that makes it costly to use and really dangerous for your operatives. You have a good chance to loose one from dying or being captured, and it costs you a lot of resources (Civilian factories). It also only lasts 3 days for a bonus that only works with air force apparently and because of how port strikes work, it can only work for at best 3 port strikes that can at most take 1 ship each which can include cheap submarines.
It seems really underwhelming to invest all those efforts and take all these risks into this. If anything fails, at best your operative is killed and you can hire a new one after 30 days, at worse he is captured and you have to rescue him which is way more costly.

 

[Secret Master]

It also only lasts 3 days for a bonus that only works with air force apparently and because of how port strikes work, it can only work for at best 3 port strikes that can at most take 1 ship each which can include cheap submarines.

Well, that's why I was thinking the time on the air part is wrong. And maybe the time on naval stuff. 72 hours can be an eternity in land combat, but it's just a few missions for air combat and barely the start of some larger naval battles.

 

[SmashingQuasar]

It should really be a land advantage. I don't really understand the logic behind it being an air advantage. Yes intelligence gives you a better understanding of enemy positions but doesn't that benefit your land army more than your air force?

 

[Riekopo]

It should really be a land advantage. I don't really understand the logic behind it being an air advantage. Yes intelligence gives you a better understanding of enemy positions but doesn't that benefit your land army more than your air force?

The reason it is air is because that's what it was in real life. We already have a land attack buff called Planning and Break Cypher. Coordinated Strike is an attempt to model the surprise air attacks on Pearl Harbor and the Soviet Union in the first days-week of Operation Barbarossa. 6 U.S. Battleships destroyed plus a bunch more damaged in 2 waves of attacks. 3900 Soviet aircraft destroyed (mostly on the ground) in the first 3 days of Barbarossa. Total air dominance achieved in one week.

What we have now is better than nothing but it needs more work. Might have to wait for an air rework to get them to work the way they should.

 

[Simon_9732495]

It could be generalized as "suprise attack". And you can choose if Land, Air or Naval.

 

[SmashingQuasar]

The reason it is air is because that's what it was in real life. We already have a land attach buff called Planning. Coordinated Strike is an attempt to model the surprise air attacks on Pearl Harbor and the Soviet Union in the first days-week of Operation Barbarossa. 6 U.S. Battleships destroyed plus a bunch more damaged in 2 waves of attacks. 3900 Soviet aircraft destroyed (mostly on the ground) in the first 3 days of Barbarossa. Total air dominance achieved in one week.

What we have now is better than nothing but it needs more work. Might have to wait for an air rework to get them to work the way they should.

I have no memory of reading this anywhere. Anyone can correct me if I am wrong but I also have no memory that Pearl Harbor happened because of heavy spy work. It happened in December 1941 (corrected from from 1945 after being pointed out by Simon_9732495) and the planning started in early 1941. It was mostly military planning and based on studying of previous British battles. There is intelligence involved but like in anything else. Pearl Harbor is not a week work like the Coordinated Strike can be. Also it does not work with the current way the game works because naval battles can last a long time and the air force works in a linear way.

I think Coordinated Strike would be more comparable to all the intelligence collected for Operation Overlord, even then it was heavy military planning along with heavy intelligence.