Suggestion: A suggestions forum?

[OriginalRafiki]

This might be somewhat of a "meta-suggestion", but here goes:

What do people think of having a dedicated sub-forum for suggestions, perhaps much like what the bug-forum is for bugs?

The way I see it, there are both good and bad sides to it:

GOOD:
- Suggestions will have a home, and it will be easier to see if things have been suggested before, especially if overviews and metathreads are maintained.
- Potentially good suggestions won't slip as easily into anonymity as they disappear into "Page 2 and beyond"-obscurity in the GD-forum.
- The GD forum will be able to focus more on the game as it is today, and perhaps becoming less "cluttered" (if one considers this to be a good thing)

BAD:
- Sub-forums are usually read by fewer people (at least, that's my impression), so things will be less debated than they are in GD

I don't know myself what I think about it, but that's what discussions are for, isn't it?

I seem to recall either EU2 or HOI1 having such a forum, but neither does (anymore); anyone know what happened, if there was one?

It might also be that the-powers-that-be have thought this through and have loads of reasons not to have such a sub-forum, in which case this whole thing becomes quite moot, but I guess we'll see. I guess it's also a requirement that such a forum would be of use for Johan & Co, otherwise it will be pretty much a waste of time and effort.

Rafiki

 

[unmerged(17523)]

I would like that as well, think it was proposed for for instance eu2 forum. Got rejected I think (not sure).

 

[Darkrenown]

I kinda torn. On one hand it'd better organise the form, on the other half the suggestions would still be posted in GD anyway.

 

[OriginalRafiki]

The mods can move them "home" till people get used to the concept; I'm however more concerned that the suggestions won't be debated as much/as well as in the GD because fewer people will see them.

Rafiki

 

[Kriegsspieler]

This is a good idea, except for the point you made that sub-forums draw fewer readers. That is certainly true, in my experience.

For that matter, I am not especially fond of those new "what would you like to see in the next patch" threads, which have started on all the forums. Their advantages are obvious, but they also become dumping grounds for every loopy idea that would require an entirely new game to be implemented, and they become so long that it's difficult to keep up woth what's been said.

There's no easy solution, obviously. I tend to follow the threads that have the most active number of contributors. If the mods do too, then they should get a pretty clear idea of where the community thinks the game should be going.

 

[Memnon]

Sounds like a good idea to me.

The people who would read it would probably be the ones who would be able to contribute best to it, anyway, and we could always, as rafiki says, redirect people of they're in the wrong forum

Besides, for all the confusion it might cause at first, it might actually pay off in getting more of our suggestions into the patches, and we can all agree that that's a good thing.

 

[Raen]

IIRC they used to have a suggestions forum, a long time ago, for EU I.

I don't know how useful the devs found it or why it no longer exists though.

 

[unmerged(25612)]

Having just posted a rant about a ideas and suggestions forum related to a completely other game, I must say that I am against the idea.

First of all these idea forums are like honey for noo-bees; Not a single one of the idea forums I have seen have been able to avoid getting dozens of posts about a simple change that has been suggested millions of times before and it will not be changed. (Protestant Bohemia of 1419 in EUII, anyone?)

I am not saying that a regular forum would not recieve such posts, but in the current state of things, the "bad" post gets buried rather quickly. But in an "idea" forum the posts seem to fill everything, and little by little the people who the ideas are made to (Moderators, coders, project leaders, other forum members...) begin to lose their respect for the "idea corner".

Also another notable side-effect is the birth of "know-all"`s. With this term I mean the people who engage in any discussion and end it, by bringing such heavy facts that they can not be argued upon. I am not saying that this should not be done, eventually, but keeping in mind that the whole base of ideas is discussion, it is rather inconvinient to have people end the discussion before it really even starts. Again I am not saying that with the current state of things it would not be so, but at least other fellow non-"know-all"`s get a chance to throw in a few replies before the final judgement.

Also separating questions from ideas is not in the end such a good thing, in my humble opinion. So often do ideas rise from the simple question of "Why?" or "How?". So often do misunderstandings make new understandings possible. Because even the progress of evolution is just copying things, but making a mistake in the process...



(That went a bit off the scope of the topic, but what the heck... )


But this is just my view of the matter and whatever the final judgement is I will submit.

 

[KINGBEN]

Perhaps we should set up a suggestion forum so people can make suggestions about what this hypothetical suggestion forum should be like if we dedided to have one.

 

[unmerged(27944)]

The mods can move them "home" till people get used to the concept; I'm however more concerned that the suggestions won't be debated as much/as well as in the GD because fewer people will see them.

Rafiki

My "dominant issue" is not that a sub-forum of suggestions can't be read and used by many users in these forum, insted my major concern is that our suggestions can be read by the delopment team and assembled into a new patch ...
Without this, we can waste yoctabyte of data talking about the color of countries' army...

 

[OriginalRafiki]

(That went a bit off the scope of the topic, but what the heck... )

Not at all! Speaking for myself (and I started the thread ), this is just what I was fishing for; reasons for (not) having such a forum.

Kingben: :rofl:

Rafiki

 

[unmerged(25053)]

For some reason Paradox has decided against a 'complaints' board ... or they would have one by now.

Edit: If it were my company, I'd have one. Set off from the others. Who would really check the whiner column every day anyway?

 

[unmerged(29181)]

It's not a bad idea.

 

[Henry v. Keiper]

From experience on HoI's forum, I think people regard GD as a place for suggestions. Even if you make one, you'll have thousands of newbies who'll post their suggestions here any way. And in large numbers. We'll be drowned in them. You laugh. I've seen it.

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Having thought a bit more, I have a few new cnosiderations:

Whatever way is deemed "correct" for putting forth suggestions, there are a few things that it needs to cover:

- People making serious suggestions need to feel that they are being taken seriously, be it by other forumers, the mods, or ultimately, the development team. This should, if possible, incorporate feedback so that the person suggesting knows what fate their suggestion had.

- It must make it as easy as possible for the mods/development to get an overview and make it as easy as possible to prioritize among them (including whatever they have thought of themselves) so they can see what they can do with the time/resources available.

I still don't know if I think a dedicated forum is the best way for doing all this. It might even be that Paradox aren't able to devote much time to working on patches for Victoria, so suggesting stuff might not even be of much use since the time available must be spent bugfixing and tweaking stuff (pure speculation on my part, this last thing).

Rafiki

 

[unmerged(25053)]

True points to make Rafiki. Also, a complaints area would be nice for those that just want to let off some steam and tell others about it. I've had a few of those. Not that I wanted any feedback, just to tell those who can understand the game (players, posters and just maybe officials). I mean, my family would not want to listen to any of this ... they aren't into these games like I am, so I post. Makes me feel better. Involved, even.

btw, I was under the impression that Para probably won't be making a vicky update. They are working hard on HOI 2. I kinda think any update to vicky would, at best, be cosmetic.

Victoria is pretty solid for the most part. Runs well. Most of the desired changes posted are more of a thought for other products or a vicky 2 some year. I don't even think any tweaking is really required. Sure, there are some loose ends, but this game plays rather well overall. (Besides, some of our ideas just might break a good thing! You never know ...)

final edit: I may be off-thread

 

[Darkrenown]

- It must make it as easy as possible for the mods/development to get an overview and make it as easy as possible to prioritize among them (including whatever they have thought of themselves) so they can see what they can do with the time/resources available.

If such a sub-forum was made, a new mod might be needed for it (Is this all your plan for forum-domination, rafiki?). The rules could be: One suggestion per thread, threads will be closed once the suggestion as been discussed, unworkable/won't be fixed/silly suggestion thread will be deleted. This way the forum and threads remain uncluttered and easy to read by the devs.

 

[Memnon]

(Is this all your plan for forum-domination, rafiki?).

Domination is only plan B. What he really wants is to be an HoI2 betatester. But don't we all...

 

[OriginalRafiki]

I'd much rather dominate GD than a measly sub-forum; other than that, Memnon is pretty much on target

(now if only I can make it to Stockholm the first weekend of July, I might get to test HOI2-alpha.... )

Rafiki

 

[Darkrenown]

Domination is only plan B. What he really wants is to be an HoI2 betatester. But don't we all...

If I don't get into the HoI2 beta I plan to destory the planet. If only I could decide which doomsday weapon to buy...