Suez completely undefended

[Gefallener_Held]

Well in my game after the Fall of France in March 1940, the Italians just waltz unopposed into the Suez canal. The British army was busy sweeping through Vichy controled Syria and the like.

This is really bad as the bid to capture the Suez canal was fun and somewhat challenging in HOI3...

 

[C-Breeze]

In a 'perfect' world, the AI would take advantage of the natural Alamein bottleneck by fortifying it and posting a rear guard prior to embarking on a Syrian expedition. Sadly, this is not a perfect AI world.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

In a 'perfect' world, the AI would take advantage of the natural Alamein bottleneck by fortifying it and posting a rear guard prior to embarking on a Syrian expedition. Sadly, this is not a perfect AI world.

Its not just perfect, its pretty much game breaking....

 

[melkor88]

I've noticed it seems to be about 50/50, some times the Allies have next to no troops in Africa and the Suez falls easy, others the Italians have no troops.

Still those are better then both having lots of troops and then losing all there equipment due to attrition.

 

[Alex_brunius]

In a 'perfect' world, the AI would take advantage of the natural Alamein bottleneck by fortifying it and posting a rear guard prior to embarking on a Syrian expedition. Sadly, this is not a perfect AI world.

It would also need the game to have such a bottleneck, since currently it only exists in the no mans land mod...

Still those are better then both having lots of troops and then losing all there equipment due to attrition.

Both supply zones along the coast can support around 20 divisions, so this shouldn't be a problem as long as divisions are not sent south into the desert ( which the no mans land mod solution also helps ensure since the AI is incapable of doing so itself )

 

[rust95]

In a 'perfect' world, the AI would take advantage of the natural Alamein bottleneck by fortifying it and posting a rear guard prior to embarking on a Syrian expedition. Sadly, this is not a perfect AI world.

There is no bottleneck. The AI can simply flank through the Sahara Desert, which is why we need no mans land.

 

[DoctorDanny]

I think that nearly all people still playing this game use the no mans land mod by now.

 

[Axe99]

This is definitely an issue. Britain struggles mightily trying to work out where to send its troops (of all the AI's, it's probably got the toughest job trying to balance things out, between trying to defend its home territories, its external territories and its colonial subjects). At some point, I suspect Steelvolt will have to implement some kind of state or region-based weighting to help tell the AI which areas are 'important' and which aren't, to get around this (even if/when the Sahara warfare issue is fixed).

 

[browd]

I think that nearly all people still playing this game use the no mans land mod by now.

That's a pretty daring assertion. Source?

 

[sterrius]

That's a pretty daring assertion. Source?

he is likely refering to MP games.

There its really becoming more rare games that don´t use the no mans land. Specially by how easy it is to load up games with mods in HOI.

but even no mans land have problems. El Alamain totally need 1 extra province to be a 2 width front instead of just 1. It becomes too easy to defend even when the axis totally have the advantage.

 

[Praetori]

Well in my game after the Fall of France in March 1940, the Italians just waltz unopposed into the Suez canal. The British army was busy sweeping through Vichy controled Syria and the like.

This is really bad as the bid to capture the Suez canal was fun and somewhat challenging in HOI3...

There really needs to be made some adjustments to certain locations, no man's land or not. And also AI priorities other than VPs.
The Allies losing Gibraltar and Suez mostly cripples them since continued effort in the region by the Allies is usually just a big IC and MP sink with the Axis controlling the Med.

 

[him_15]

AI unwilling to defend key strategic area is an old issue dated back to HOI2, and it is very annoying for us player who want some real challenge. It is no fun to capture Suez Canal so easily without any heavy fighting. It just seems that the Dev is unable to improve this situation.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

To clarify, I am playing with no man's land. I did do a little research before playing.

Is there no fix to this? I am not sure I want to play this game now, which I invested a lot of time and effort in learning how to play.

I think may be the problem is having Vichy in the Axis, or at least Syria. How does that work, is it always Syria to Vichy and tunisia and Morroco to Free France? I did sae before the fall of France so I could always go back and select all of France if it means that Suez becomes undefended. Should I do so?

 

[Gefallener_Held]

AI unwilling to defend key strategic area is an old issue dated back to HOI2, and it is very annoying for us player who want some real challenge. It is no fun to capture Suez Canal so easily without any heavy fighting. It just seems that the Dev is unable to improve this situation.

Maybe beta test versions but I have never seen any like this.

Again, is there no fix to this at this point? I think maybe I bought the game six months too soon.

 

[Culthrasa]

I think that nearly all people still playing this game use the no mans land mod by now.

I've been doing achievements exclusively... so no No man's land for me ......That said, finished the last one three days ago, it was the first mod i installed, eager to try it out

 

[ltccone]

he is likely refering to MP games.

There its really becoming more rare games that don´t use the no mans land. Specially by how easy it is to load up games with mods in HOI.

but even no mans land have problems. El Alamain totally need 1 extra province to be a 2 width front instead of just 1. It becomes too easy to defend even when the axis totally have the advantage.

It is only 30 miles from the coast to the Qattara Depression at El Alamein.

 

[ForsakenSoldier]

I think that nearly all people still playing this game use the no mans land mod by now.

No, it breaks achievements.

 

[Dalwin]

AI unwilling to defend key strategic area is an old issue dated back to HOI2, and it is very annoying for us player who want some real challenge. It is no fun to capture Suez Canal so easily without any heavy fighting. It just seems that the Dev is unable to improve this situation.

This is a big part of why I have taken to playing almost exclusively MP. It has gotten to where more often than not, in SP, I find my self thinking that the game would run much more smoothly and lag free if they simply didn't bother to have the enemy units even take the field. The end result would effectively be the same.

 

[Praetori]

I think may be the problem is having Vichy in the Axis, or at least Syria. How does that work, is it always Syria to Vichy and tunisia and Morroco to Free France? I did sae before the fall of France so I could always go back and select all of France if it means that Suez becomes undefended. Should I do so?

One "solution" would be compartmentalization. I've argued for it in other discussions as well.
If you want realistic behavior you should model the operational considerations accordingly.
Suez being of vital importance to the overall strategic effort (along with other areas) should in AI terms be it's own Area of Operations with the local AI "commander" marshaling his forces dependent on that AO. Much like the theater/front AI in HOI2 which in later iterations "demanded" specific forces depending on the assigned area the same should be done for the specific AI set of AOs.
Right now the AI considers the entire globe and shuffles around units across it depending on fluid situations and a lack of intel/insight leaving vital areas undefended and hopeless invasions of far away places.

Now they've done this with the Air system. A single air-zone and the forces assigned don't give a rats ass about what's going on across the ocean. They fight as well as they can within their designated area and get stuff according to priority. The overlying AI scripts then decide which areas are of importance. It's a shame that similar reasoning haven't been used for ground-forces other than the Garrison Mechanic which actually somewhat mimics that line of thinking.

An army of 30 divisions with a set objective should pay little heed of what's going on half a world away and should not extend it's front to include areas elsewhere (and thus shuffle around units to stupidity). You could divide it further and get proper Corps behavior that only thinks a few provinces ahead etc.
The overlying AI making strategic decisions might judge that a certain area is worth less qualified divisions or less numbers but that wouldn't affect the local AI and it would still at least try to request an adequate amount (and do what can be done with what's available).

The overall principle should revolve around tiered AI decision-making where each subsequent "level" considering each subordinate as a single unit with needs (rather than a multitude of units) and the sub-level doing the geographical considerations. It's also a lot easier to balance/tweak when you can modify the behavior of sets instead of a big pile of code that affects everything.

To add on to the latter part you could even have differences in operational (smaller scale) behavior depending on doctrines and leaders with some (think Patton or Rommel) being more prone to extending their AO and some (think Paulus) not giving a rats ass about what's going on outside it.

 

[C-Breeze]

There is no bottleneck. The AI can simply flank through the Sahara Desert, which is why we need no mans land.

I think that nearly all people still playing this game use the no mans land mod by now.

It's completely second nature to me. The idea of being able to flank Alamein is so ahistorical as to be comical. But even if you're willing to look past that, the implications of playing without 'No Man's Land' is all but game breaking. I don't normally mess with the AI, but in this case I can't just sit back and watch while it ties up masses of manpower scouring sand dunes for a trace of water. Been there, done that, not going back.