Succession Puzzle

[unmerged(192917)]

I'm the King of Norway and England in house Yngling. I may soon be able to create the Empire of Scandinavia. Ewan, the King of Scotland, is in house Dunkeld. Ewan's only son and heir is Ale, my grandson, who belongs to house Yngling through a matrilineal marriage.

Scenario 1: Ewan dies in a mysterious hunting accident. Ale takes the throne of Scotland, and he's a member of my house. But he's a king and I'm a king, so he can't be my vassal yet. Then later I form the Empire of Scandinavia. Does Ale become my vassal when I become emperor?

Scenario 2: Ewan stays healthy as I finish cobbling together the empire. Now I'm Emperor of Scandinavia, and then Ewan tumbles from the parapet. Does his heir Ale, as a member of my house, become my vassal when he becomes king of Scotland?

 

[JonStryker]

1) No
2) No

Noone magically becomes your vassal as soon as you are emperor

 

[ColdFist]

In both scenarios the Kingdom of Scotland remains independent.

 

[User29]

if your grandson has a claim on the throne of scotland then you can make him your vassal by becoming emperor and then pressing his claim

 

[unmerged(192917)]

My grandson doesn't have a claim yet. I'm eager to make him king ASAP, because he doesn't have any siblings and won't get any siblings in my house. So if he dies before his father, then the crown passes to somebody in the father's house, and the whole plan fizzles.

Do I derive any benefit from having a member of my house next in line to the throne of Scotland? Aside from improved relations and overall prestige for the house. It seems like the grandson would be more use to me if his father were deposed, and then I could press my grandson's claim. Is there any way I can use this grandson to eventually make the King of Scotland a vassal of the Emperor of Scandinavia?

 

[Sopot]

Is there any way I can use this grandson to eventually make the King of Scotland a vassal of the Emperor of Scandinavia?

Well, when the Scottish nobles kick him out as they are likely to do, you can always press his claim if he arrives at your court.

 

[JonStryker]

There are three possible solutions from the top of my head:
1) Wait for him to have sons. When he dies invite a second, third, ... son and press his claim. That will take a couple of years but Scotland will be a valuable ally until then so why not?
2) Get your hands on the empire of Britannia. Not all that easy as you would need to be Norman/Saxon/English/Celtic and need to own 80% of the de jure. You could then ask him to swear fealty. Although he might simply refuse because he's king.
3) Become elective. Elect the grandson as your heir. Imho the best solution (if he has acceptable stats). Only problem: He might not be eligible to be selected as the heir.

@Sopot
Good Point. The problem might be that even if he loses the kingdom he might still own a county in Scotland e.g. be a landed vassal of the new king. But if he's at your court you can press his claim on the kingdom (without landing him first) and he'll be vassal to the Scandinavian Empire.

 

[jordarkelf]

If you press a dynastic member's claim, they will become your vassal if the new title is of a lower tier than yours - so yes this might work. IF you are emperor of Scandinavia, AND your grandson has a claim on Scotland AND he is in your court, by pressing his claim you will end up with Scotland as a vassal to Scandinavia.