Succession Oddity: Why do my titles split?

[rs2excelsior]

So, I'm playing a William the Conqueror run, and after some shenanigans with the HRE successfully installing a claimant to the throne of England I've got things back on track... mostly. It seems my succession with this character is doing something weird.

When I conquered England as William, the title was created with Agnatic-Cognatic Primogeniture. I have since created the Kingdom of Wales and, more recently, the Kingdom of Ireland. So far so good--all three titles have the exact same succession law since I created the other two, and so should go to the same character. However, after I lost the claim war, it seems that Wales is going to split off from the others.

Here's the situation in more detail: my current character is the daughter of the previous ruler. He died young and she was his only child. She married the King of Scotland (matrilineally, though it doesn't really matter, since both of us are of the de Normandie dynasty--I got them onto the Scottish throne a while ago). They had two children before he *cough* met with an unfortunate accident: a daughter and a son. I have since remarried (matrilineally) and had a couple more sons. My eldest child is currently on the throne of Scotland, and Scotland has Agnatic-Cognatic Gavelkind. The way I understand it, so long as I die before my son does, England, Wales, and Ireland should all pass to him, as he is the eldest male child. However, Wales originally was set to go to my daughter, and now to my second son. None of the succession laws have changed, and I can't figure out why a primogeniture title is skipping my eldest or ignoring the gender preference. I'd hoped saving and reloading (or winning the war for England) would force the game to recalculate, but it doesn't seem to have helped.

Family tab showing Wales has a different heir:

Inheritance Law screens. All three are Agnatic-Cognatic Primogeniture, but Wales has a completely different line of succession from the other two.

Any thoughts as to why (or how to fix it)?

 

[Sunspawn]

Is Scotland independent and are any of your titles de-jure HRE? Might be issues with blocked external inheritance.

 

[rs2excelsior]

Scotland is independent, I have only been a vassal of the HRE for a few years (that was only to get the Kingdom of England back without fighting the Emperor). I certainly haven't been a vassal for the 100-200 years (can't remember the default right off) of de jure drift to take place. Also, I think I had this problem before I even swore fealty to the Emperor, with Wales going to my daughter instead of my son, when the son was still in my court and just heir of Scotland.

 

[SigurdStormhand]

Have your tried destroying Wales and recreating it?

 

[Castimirr]

Check if the crown law of wales blocks inheritance outside the realm.

 

[Tryvenyal]

but Wales has a completely different line of succession from the other two.

It´s not completly different. Just the king of Scotland is missing from the line. Assume is ahs to do with Whales somehow beeing dejure vassal to HRE. Must have to do with Conrolled Inheritance.

 

[Castios]

Your Queen is hot.

 

[Vegetalss4]

It's possible that Wales itself has the "disallow external inheritances" law, perhaps that got passed by some earlier holder of the title before it got destroyed and recreated by you.

 

[SigurdStormhand]

Your Queen is hot.

Not up to the standards of Hawt Pope - but you're not wrong.

I really feel like destroying the title is the way to go, in fact I'd destroy everything except England because once your son inherits you won't be able to destroy anything until you can change Scotland to Primo, and you won't be able to create Britannia until you've broken free of the HRE.

 

[MK1980]

you don't need the kingdom title of wales since you hold all the lands in it anyway. just destroy it.

and after you used the de jure claim to add the missing green provinces in ireland to your realm, you can also delete kingdom of ireland.

though if you're close to getting scotland, you may hold onto the secondary kingdom titles and simply form britannia. doesn't matter what happens to the kingdoms afterwards. let the little brother have one of them or hand them to random local nobles.
if you can take some of those norwegian held lands (and the independent irish lands) you might actually pass the 80% threshold for the empire.

 

[Blackwhitecavias]

Looks like controlled realm inheritance, can you show the crown laws to check?

 

[rs2excelsior]

Yeah, the Emperor is currently bleeding his army dry in the current Crusade, as soon as that's over (I also joined so I can't do it right now, probably a mistake in retrospect) I will probably be able to break free. So I don't really want to destroy the titles, as I expect I can probably get the Empire of Britannia before this character dies. If not, I can still make it work (and if I'm getting older without breaking free I'll consider it).

I will double check the crown laws when I next fire up the game, but of the relevant titles (HRE, England, Wales, Ireland) I think Wales is the only one without controlled realm inheritance. I'll also have to double-check the de jure empire map mode, but there's no way Wales is de jure HRE, because I swore fealty ~5-10 years ago (for the express purpose of getting England back without having to fight the entire HRE). None of these titles were vassals of the HRE before then (Wales and Ireland were both created by me as the independent King of England, this is the first time I've ever been a vassal of anybody since William the Bastard right at the start).

 

[Sunspawn]

My suggestion is to destroy Wales and Ireland now just in case - RNG can kill your ruler at any time.

 

[SigurdStormhand]

Yeah, the Emperor is currently bleeding his army dry in the current Crusade, as soon as that's over (I also joined so I can't do it right now, probably a mistake in retrospect) I will probably be able to break free. So I don't really want to destroy the titles, as I expect I can probably get the Empire of Britannia before this character dies. If not, I can still make it work (and if I'm getting older without breaking free I'll consider it).

I will double check the crown laws when I next fire up the game, but of the relevant titles (HRE, England, Wales, Ireland) I think Wales is the only one without controlled realm inheritance. I'll also have to double-check the de jure empire map mode, but there's no way Wales is de jure HRE, because I swore fealty ~5-10 years ago (for the express purpose of getting England back without having to fight the entire HRE). None of these titles were vassals of the HRE before then (Wales and Ireland were both created by me as the independent King of England, this is the first time I've ever been a vassal of anybody since William the Bastard right at the start).

You really should destroy the title, you don't need it for anything, you hold the entire Kingdom and you have so much prestige destroying it won't hurt one bit, you'll just annoy a few vassals. I'm not completely sure but looks like you have 80% of Britannia, so once you break free you should be able to create the Empire straight away, then give Scotland to a relative.

Are you ready to impose Imperial Administration once you create the Empire? Looking at the date that should be possible, you should bre prepping for it, and not passing any crown laws, so that you can hand our Viceroyalties and impose the King's Peace as soon as you get the Empire.

If the HRE really is that weak consider forming an Independence Faction instead of just breaking free. In addition to making the war easier you may be able to force-vassalise some of the newly independent states to do long-term damage to the Emperor.

Then replace the Pope, see about getting a claim on the HRE, then the Byzantine Empire, then you can declare yourself Roman Emperor.

Or maybe just sit at home, build hospitals and don't go crazy like I always do.

 

[rs2excelsior]

Okay, this is weird.

I went to the law screen to check realm inheritance laws, and all of them (England, Wales, Ireland, and the HRE) came up with controlled realm inheritance as illegal... the first time.

Then clicking back through Ireland and Wales came up as Free. Sometimes. It legitimately keeps switching how it's shown for both of those titles. So... bug?

It seems like if I click on England first they come up as illegal, but if I click HRE first it comes up free.

If I hover over the kingdoms in the de jure map modes it shows Wales with free inheritance and the others as regulated, so it's probably related to that. And my titles are still outside of the de jure HRE.

 

[Rags17]

Sounds like a bug.

Off topic maybe but years ago I built a highly complex spreadsheet to do some heavy financial calculations and found that I kept getting some sort of irregular bug in the calcs. It turned out that I had a recursive reference but rather than being a simple cross reference it was about 4-5 cells deep so the auto checker in Excel couldn't pick it up, ie Cell 1 changes Cell 2 which changes Cell 3 which changes Cell 4 which changes Cell 1. What got spat out depended upon what call I had clicked on last so it was kind of hard to pick up to say the least !

 

[SigurdStormhand]

Okay, this is weird.

I went to the law screen to check realm inheritance laws, and all of them (England, Wales, Ireland, and the HRE) came up with controlled realm inheritance as illegal... the first time.

Then clicking back through Ireland and Wales came up as Free. Sometimes. It legitimately keeps switching how it's shown for both of those titles. So... bug?

It seems like if I click on England first they come up as illegal, but if I click HRE first it comes up free.

If I hover over the kingdoms in the de jure map modes it shows Wales with free inheritance and the others as regulated, so it's probably related to that. And my titles are still outside of the de jure HRE.

View attachment 448592 View attachment 448593 View attachment 448595 View attachment 448596

OK, so looks like the solution is to change the law in Wales, and if that doesn't work destroy the title.

 

[quigleyer]

Okay, this is weird.

I went to the law screen to check realm inheritance laws, and all of them (England, Wales, Ireland, and the HRE) came up with controlled realm inheritance as illegal... the first time.

Then clicking back through Ireland and Wales came up as Free. Sometimes. It legitimately keeps switching how it's shown for both of those titles. So... bug?

It seems like if I click on England first they come up as illegal, but if I click HRE first it comes up free.

If I hover over the kingdoms in the de jure map modes it shows Wales with free inheritance and the others as regulated, so it's probably related to that. And my titles are still outside of the de jure HRE.

Not to try and Necro this thread, but I remember seeing this thread a while ago and experienced this exact same bug last night with the Kingdoms of Denmark, Sweden, and Pomerania. I tried changing my external inheritance laws to illegal all at the same time, and after the second kingdom successfully changed laws the UI broke and a reload would not save it. I destroyed the title like the others were suggesting.

If I opened laws and went from Sweden (main title) to Denmark, then to Pomerania they would all display as "illegal" but if I opened it and went from Sweden to Pomerania it would be inconsistent each time.

I CANNOT seem to get my full steam account synced with this game and can't see the bug forum to report this.

 

[rs2excelsior]

I don't think a day after the last post is necroing the thread.

I might go make a bug report, I do have the screenshots. Unfortunately it's ironman, I'm no longer a vassal, and the succession problem itself seems to have fixed itself--so I don't have a save to post of the time when I made the post. I can check and see if the display problem is still there now.

 

[SigurdStormhand]

Glad it's sorted.

So, are you Emperor of Rome yet?