Succession, heir is not your blood

[fre0n]

Dear everyone,

Recently discovered CK2 and playing it a lot since last Dec, learning Mechanics and having fun. Had a thing happening while being Emperor of Scandinavia, reformed Pagan, just lost everything and was curious about what actually happened. Here is some details:

1. Started as Bjorn Ironside, Uppland
2. Present year is early 1000`s
3. own de Jure Scandinavia and some extras kingdoms (Gernania) south of Denmark
4. Elective Monarchy

Everything was going well, was raiding Constantinople, then an Hostel I was staying at exploded, died.

Heir was from my blood, place was assured due to previous liege stability, get started again..

Yet the dust was not settled, everyone is unhappy, no one from my blood get votes except my own single vote, for two kingdoms and the Empire. So instead of loosing an election, I voted for the top choice even if not my blood, so you know I keep being emperor if I was to die prematurely again.

Get to join the Warrior Society, got wounded, infected and died within a few weeks.

Lost All titles but the remote Kingdom I did not knew I had (under developed Lapland) since it happened so quick, and one county. So it came as a surprise. And I think is game over, as I have not a lot of money and not sure what I can do with 50 man levees.

So where was my mistake, apart from trying to join the Warrior Society too early, especially regarding my choice of a heir not in my bloodline. Or maybe it was non-preventable as once triggered everything happen so quick.

When your election committee massively vote someone not your blood or someone you don't want, and cannot buy out voters, what is a good approach short term to make the best out of it, taking into account that I would rather have someone I don't want/like and an empire than my blood and nothing?

 

[Chunakun]

You have to be patient. Try to build up your prestige by raiding. You have a claim to the empire. With a lot of prestige you can raise a tribal army and defeat the current emperor.

 

[MK1980]

your next character will always be someone of your dynasty - it doesn't matter if you voted for someone else or not - you will not get to play that stranger who "stole" your empire but the son who inherited the lesser titles.

elective laws suck if you can't guarantee that you will win the election. use other succession laws

 

[fre0n]

OK so it need to be from *my* dynasty. Which was not clear and I think this is where I failed to maneuver. This is the info was looking for. And playing as Ironman, I did not had a lot of room to test ins and outs. Thus, I made this 'out of my dynasty stranger' heir to my big main kingdom too, thus loosing it and keeping just the tiny one. I know I could have kept my main big Kingdom if I understood better this.

I already had a situation like that happened while I was emperor of Hispania, same elective Monarchy, I lost everything but a powerful duchy (fully developed Leon), I was able to get back as emperor within 100 year which was awesome (get kingdon, then emperor, one step at a time). But presently I will try to see how I can do something with my limited titles.

 

[MK1980]

as long as the empire remains elective, you could probably also be elected as the next heir with one of your characters even if you only hold one garbage kingdom. after all - you lost the empire through election of a non-dynastic heir. the same thing can also happen in the other direction.

 

[fre0n]

as long as the empire remains elective, you could probably also be elected as the next heir with one of your characters even if you only hold one garbage kingdom. after all - you lost the empire through election of a non-dynastic heir. the same thing can also happen in the other direction.

You are right I will try it a bit to see where it goes! I really liked how my ex vassals were quite aggressive and conquering Poland or Brittania even though I was on another scene, so I expect it to be dynamic still. Just hope they won't be too dumb and sink the Moral Authority which was going not too bad last I checked (85)

 

[Castimirr]

OK so it need to be from *my* dynasty. Which was not clear and I think this is where I failed to maneuver.

Just remember in this game you play a dynasty, not a country. If you have a dynast ruling in a completely different realm elsewhere and lose your last holding you continue playing as them (assuming they are a playable character anyway, i.e. not some religion or government that requires a DLC you don't have). If the empire you founded is doing great, but you are the only valid landed character of your dynasty you lose the throne and then the new emperor revokes your last title, it's game over. Ask the Merovingians.

 

[Rags17]

That's the absolute best thing about this game - you are never really out until you lose your last landed dynasty member.

In my current playthrough as the Khagan of Avaria my character was murdered by some vile assassin who had plotted by downfall. Imagine my surprise when i took over as my cousin and found out that it was HIM who had organised it ! I'm not sure how to feel now - mad that he killed "me" or happy that "my" plot succeeded ?

Stick with it - you should have some sort of claim over all the titles you lost - even if you don't you can always act a spoiler and pick at the edges of your old empire while you build your strength for a revival.

Growing large, losing the lot and growing it all large again is one of the greatest joys of this game.

 

[AlexArgos]

That's the absolute best thing about this game - you are never really out until you lose your last landed dynasty member.

Not 100% true. If your direct heir in not of your dynasty then it's game over (regardless of how many other landed dynastic relatives you have). In such cases (non dynastic direct heir; like a woman with regular marriage) you should opt for a succession law that favors dynasty over close kin (Seniority/Tanistry).

 

[Tryvenyal]

I assume you lost your old capital? you had a Kindom in the empire? Sweden(Concidering where Björn Ironside starts?) I assume Kingdom of sweden was elective as well? All titles which are elective might go to different heirs, and non of them to your favoured heir. In an elective empire, as the emperer, I would suggest you to not hold kingdom titles aswell, unless they are primogentive and you intend to loose the election OR your only possible heir is your primo heir.

 

[fre0n]

I assume you lost your old capital? you had a Kindom in the empire? Sweden(Concidering where Björn Ironside starts?) I assume Kingdom of sweden was elective as well? All titles which are elective might go to different heirs, and non of them to your favoured heir. In an elective empire, as the emperer, I would suggest you to not hold kingdom titles aswell, unless they are primogentive and you intend to loose the election OR your only possible heir is your primo heir.

Yes you assumed all correctly. I was holding and l lost Uppland my old capital, and Sweden. Sweden was Elective Monarchy too and I picked (badly) as an heir the most popular one which was not of my dynasty, the same one who got the empire. Agreed, was not sure about holding one kingdom, will give it to a dynasty member when the chance arise.

 

[Castimirr]

Not 100% true. If your direct heir in not of your dynasty then it's game over (regardless of how many other landed dynastic relatives you have). In such cases (non dynastic direct heir; like a woman with regular marriage) you should opt for a succession law that favors dynasty over close kin (Seniority/Tanistry).

Ah, I see. A non-dynastic heir on death ends the game. Losing your last title without dying is what triggers the switch to another playable dynast.

 

[Zoomun]

Not 100% true. If your direct heir in not of your dynasty then it's game over (regardless of how many other landed dynastic relatives you have). In such cases (non dynastic direct heir; like a woman with regular marriage) you should opt for a succession law that favors dynasty over close kin (Seniority/Tanistry).

I had no idea that was a thing. I've never been in that situation so I had just assumed it would be a game over. It's amazing how much I'm still learning after 1700 hours.

 

[fre0n]

So a quick update, @Chunakun and those saying I should be patient were right.

I got to cleaned up a bit my De Jure remote kingdom (Lapland) leading minor wars over there with neighbors, while keeping improving my Diplomacy. Just a few years goes and my King become a favorite for the next Emperor, thanks to my king father having like 15 childrens all king and dukes spread in the Empire (so all my bros/sis and half-bro/sis we were a close bunch apparently). Emperor got cancer and I got everything, but had to keep a constant look to how things were going as there was a second favorite in the possible emperor candidates.

So having a strong dynasty is quite useful.

 

[AlexArgos]

had to keep a constant look to how things were going as there was a second favorite in the possible emperor candidates.

You should fiddle with the message setting so that every time your heir changes you get one of those big messages that pause the game.