Succession game!

[JerkyJerry]

With regards to the budget. When I started my 2 years we were making $12 or $13k per week? When I ended my two years we were above $30k per week.
When I started my 2 years we had 21k population? We are well over 30k now.
During different times during my 2 years we were increasing population by more than 300 cims per week.
In addition I raised all the taxes to 12% across the board. With cims being as happy as they are, land value on a huge increase, services at an all time high, parks all over the place, a subway, less noise & ground pollution; cims paying more in taxes is a no brainer.
I increased all services to 100% due to the fact that population was growing so quickly despite not a single road being added. So for the next player he should not have to worry about the essentials i.e. power, water, sewer, garbage & education.
As the population grows we are going to have to add services however we should/could be all set for the near future.

 

[JerkyJerry]

Noise pollution (and ground pollution) effects happiness. Happiness effects land value and population. The higher the land value the more $$$ per week we make. The larger the population living in higher land value the more $$$ per week we make.
Think of them all (police, fire, education, land value, pollution, public transit etc.) as a chain on a bike. You need a real sturdy and well oiled chain to get that bike up the hill (up the hill equals higher and higher population levels) to reach your goal of the summit. If one link (education) is weak the chain will continue to slip (and possibly break) which will impede your progress.
The way the game is designed is to have the mayor use all services that the developers developed to reach the highest summits. So think of the game as if you spent months and months writing code. You would not have wanted to waste any time writing code for fire protection for example if mayors could just skip over having to place fire stations to reach the highest summits within the game would you?

They design the game so that everything works together and more importantly compliments one another.

 

[JerkyJerry]

Now when a city has just 3k cims granted services are less important as are budgets & taxes and traffic and pollution etc. However to have much larger populations one must have and keep all services at very high levels.
So what I did was more or less set up the next few mayors for success. I increased happiness and the money flow and we have the foundation so that for the next few mayor turns they can concentrate on roads and all the other fun stuff in the game.
Some tweaking may need to still happen and that is fine with me. I just wanted to give us a good solid foundation for growth going forward so that we don't have any chain slips or breaks along the way.

 

[ItalianGuy]

Great job jerkyjerry!

 

[Myquandro]

Seems to me that you have done a great job. I have to see it to be sure , but from what you tell us I have no reason to doubt it.

You're also absolutely right in that all aspects need to be (nearly) perfect to create a big city.

 

[stiiknafuulia]

I took a look at the save (the last time I do it on this accursed laptop! took AGES even to open it), and made a few observations:

- the budget for Fire Safety seems out of control, compared to other services. $ 33k, when the next biggest service is $ 21k. Are all those stations really necessary? Are you sure it affects happiness in such a great way? Anyway, we do have the money for it (in great part thanks to your efforts! ), but if we could get by with lesser stations or a smaller budget, then it should be looked into, imo.

- the Leisure budget, otoh, seems next to non-existent even with parks all over the city! Only $ 2,4k even at 100 %. To me it would seem like it's a much better bet to simply build even more parks etc, instead of the expensive Fire Stations. Who cares if they get burned to death if they can have a nice picnic while getting all crispy, am I rite? Of course this flies out the window if there's a limit to how many Leisure spots the citizens can benefit from at any one time; are you aware of such a limit existing?

- Other than that it seems peachy (from the brief glimpse I was able to have) -- although there were some abandonment problems due to dead people piling up in the remote suburbs. ('Just dump them in the new parks for goodness' sake; sheesh, do I have to do all the thinking by myself?!') I was surprised by how much our income has went up -- I guess land value really counts in this game! Thank you for teaching that to us, JJ!

@Myquandro: sound advice, but there's at least two reasons to have some cash on hand; 1) to leave some for the next player, and 2) to tend to emergencies / issues of forgetfulness (which my mayor character frequently suffers from; I assure you it's all role-play! ).

@Spockyt: Now that we have the save, feel free to pick it up and start playing when you have the time. --Next up is Calad, as we get to the end of our first full round of turns. Yay!

@ Everyone: What do you think about going to a new time limit of 1 game-year / player? Is it still too early for that; perhaps round #3 would be better for it?

EDIT: Also, should we enable Traffic Manager for round #2, as was planned previously? It seems that existing roads are not 'upgraded' to the new traffic system automatically, so we'd have a mix of old and new stuff, working according to their own logic... Perhaps it could be sorted out, but do we want to risk it? Maybe it'd be better to wait for a new game to start using additional mods after all? Let's hear some opinions; I could go either way, according to how others feel about this.

 

[JerkyJerry]

Fire:
I use only headquarters (?) and not stations. I do this for a couple of reasons. One is much of the city is low density. As that gets turned into high density traffic builds and it takes longer for fire trucks to reach fires. In addition with high density produces more cars & trucks (in theory. Depending on how good our public transit is and pedestrians). The other reason is the topography of the map and curved roads. The fire headquarters will have less coverage area compared to straight streets and blocks on flat land. Remember I placed what I did with future growth in mind not just for the needs of today.

Leisure:
It is a bit different than fire for example. First the parks are much cheaper and when you go to the leisure tab you should see very few buildings that are not blue in color. Which means those buildings are affected (in a positive way) by the parks. And again when future growth happens the higher density buildings will be covered already. Which does not mean a few parks may need to be moved or removed in the future. So before you add anything look at the color of the buildings. If they are blue that means they are happy and covered by that particular service. If they are red they have no coverage. But again with road elevations and curves those things reduce the reach of all services.

As each mayor is playing they can change things as they see fit. I won't take any offense to anything. I've got over 300 hours of play time and have built numerous (3) cities beyond 650k as well as other cities more than 350k - 450k etc. So my attention was paid to future growth and experience. Change is a good thing. I'm not married to anything that I did. No worries mate

 

[JerkyJerry]

Mods I like


Remove Chirpy. I never read anything chirper has to say. It tells me nothing that I already don’t know. If someone else wants it that is no issue for me but if no one does we can get rid of that annoyance.


Employment Details: Provides additional information that could be very useful


Road Protractor: Really helps in making intersections/roads and provides a lot of information


Crossings: Allows the placement of cross walks on streets. Really helps to get pedestrians across streets rather than having to walk to the end of a street for example.


Extended Building Information: Again provides the user much more information about buildings


Extended Road Upgrade: change road directions and change one way to two way roads


Extend Public Transport UI: Provides more information


Fine road heights: Allows more road design options


Refund: Get your money back for mistakes


Automatic Bulldoze: Removes abandoned and burned down buildings.


Transport line color mod: allows the ability to change transport line colors to better identify them and issues to fix issues


No pillars: allows the building of floating raised roads which allows to build under the roads


There are a couple of traffic mods but one does not work with a couple of the above mods and the other does not work with a couple of other above mods. Some research will be needed to pick the right one. I’ve also heard that CO will be using a few of these mods (and others) into their next patch so by the time we start a new map we may have them implemented into the base game already.


Just my 2cents

 

[Spockyt]

Thanks for tagging me, I have favourited the download page, and when I go onto my main computer I will download it, but I will probably play tomorrow.

Regarding mods, I have opinons on a few of them.

Remove Chirpy, don't particularly mind. I just use the don't open on new tweets option in the options.
Road Protractor, sounds wonderful, I subscribed to it a while ago, but never got around to playing with it.
Extended Road Upgrade, I used to use this but, on the first patch, they added the functionality of it to the game.
Automatic Bulldoze, I like it, but I'm not sure it would be as good for this game.
No Pillars, heard of it, but have not gotten around to trying it, sounds like it could be good though, especially for this map.

 

[Myquandro]

Remove Chirpy. I never read anything chirper has to say. It tells me nothing that I already don’t know. If someone else wants it that is no issue for me but if no one does we can get rid of that annoyance.

I don't use chirpy, but I don't even notice that it's there anymore. I just set it to not opening and not making any sounds.

Employment Details: Provides additional information that could be very useful

I don't know this mod, so I have to look into it. I'll get back to it after the weekend.

Road Protractor: Really helps in making intersections/roads and provides a lot of information

Don't know this kid either

Crossings: Allows the placement of cross walks on streets. Really helps to get pedestrians across streets rather than having to walk to the end of a street for example.

Sounds like a good mod. Haven't seen it yet.

Extended Building Information: Again provides the user much more information about buildings

Like this mod. Would be a nice addition.

Extended Road Upgrade: change road directions and change one way to two way roads

It can't do anything that the base game can't. In the base game one can change one way to two way and change its direction.

Extend Public Transport UI: Provides more information

Like this mod a lot.

Fine road heights: Allows more road design options

I don't think this would be a good idea as it creates unrealistic and (for as far as I've seen) some problems.

Refund: Get your money back for mistakes

Don't want this one as its not realistic (and not needed).

Automatic Bulldoze: Removes abandoned and burned down buildings.

I'm indifferent about this one, used it a while but it's not needed for me.

Transport line color mod: allows the ability to change transport line colors to better identify them and issues to fix issues

Like this mod, but there are a few that do the same.

No pillars: allows the building of floating raised roads which allows to build under the roads

Definitely not if its up to me. This mod is unrealistic and it takes away all the challenges of building roads.

There are a couple of traffic mods but one does not work with a couple of the above mods and the other does not work with a couple of other above mods. Some research will be needed to pick the right one. I’ve also heard that CO will be using a few of these mods (and others) into their next patch so by the time we start a new map we may have them implemented into the base game already.

The mod I definitely want is traffic manager.

 

[ItalianGuy]

I love mods, and know a lot of them, so here is my judgement:

Mods I like


Remove Chirpy. I never read anything chirper has to say. It tells me nothing that I already don’t know. If someone else wants it that is no issue for me but if no one does we can get rid of that annoyance.

This is not necessary, you can lower the sound and disable the option to open chirps automatically.

Employment Details: Provides additional information that could be very useful

I agree, but it's optional, as it doesn't affect saves.

Road Protractor: Really helps in making intersections/roads and provides a lot of information

I agree, I love it when placing pipes: 90 degrees and 23 tiles
Plus, doesn't affect saves so it's optional.

Crossings: Allows the placement of cross walks on streets. Really helps to get pedestrians across streets rather than having to walk to the end of a street for example.

This needs unanimous agreement because it's not that easy to place, especially where bus stops are. (I vote yes)

Extended Building Information: Again provides the user much more information about buildings

Very useful, but it should be voted because it sets names and affects the save in this way (I vote yes).

Extended Road Upgrade: change road directions and change one way to two way roads

Optional because the vanilla game does it, even if with a different interface, and it doesn't affect saves.

Extend Public Transport UI: Provides more information

This is very useful, and everyone who cares about mass transit should use it because it doesn't affect the save but allows a much easier management of lines.

Fine road heights: Allows more road design options

I don't know if this affect the save, maybe not. Anyway let's vote on this and I vote yes.

Refund: Get your money back for mistakes

I don't use this as it seems like a cheat, but this is a multiplayer game so preventing money waste is better for everyone. We need to vote and I don't vote (you decide).

Automatic Bulldoze: Removes abandoned and burned down buildings.

I think that if we use this, we must disable the automatic abandoned buildings bulldoze, leaving only the burned down ones. This because if for any reason a big chunk of buildings get abandoned, we may have a disconnected power network, or other bad things. If we use this configuration, it can even be optional.

Transport line color mod: allows the ability to change transport line colors to better identify them and issues to fix issues

There are two mods of this type, they can both be used (of course only one of them) and if someone wants to do things by hand, that's ok too.

No pillars: allows the building of floating raised roads which allows to build under the roads

I think that this map begs for it on its knees. (Let's vote, I vote yes)

There are a couple of traffic mods but one does not work with a couple of the above mods and the other does not work with a couple of other above mods. Some research will be needed to pick the right one. I’ve also heard that CO will be using a few of these mods (and others) into their next patch so by the time we start a new map we may have them implemented into the base game already.


Just my 2cents

Don't worry about that, if any mod we use is included in the game with the next patch, we will do what's needed to transition.

 

[JerkyJerry]

Will we be playing on a different map for the next go round?

 

[JerkyJerry]

The other question I had (forgot to ask yesterday) is; what if any assets will we be using?

 

[stiiknafuulia]

@JerkyJerry: 650k citizens! Wow! You must have a beast of a computer... With those credentials, I think we'd be wise to follow your advice.

EDIT: The map for the next game I think will be 'Last Paradise'. It's been posted earlier in this thread, but just type that into the Steam Workshop and it should come up in the results. It's not set in stone though, so if you know a better map, feel free to recommend it.

EDIT2: As for assets, there hasn't been any talk about them, but I think it might be too much of a hassle to get everyone to use them. Btw what is the game's behavior when you don't have an asset and try to load a save which uses it? If it's just replaced with 'brown boxes', and doesn't crash the game, then we might consider using custom assets (for the next game at least). If it crashes the game though, it's best to do without them, imo.

@Myquandro: Thanks for the info about the budget percentages. However, I have one more question: when you increase the budget for a service, does it also increase the area of effect of the service building? I got that impression, but I want to be sure, because if this is the case, then it's not clear-cut whether we should use a 150 % budget or 100 %. Even with diminishing returns on the allotted money, the radius increase (which works in the opposite direction; i.e. more bang for the buck as the radius increases) might outweigh the additional cost factor. (I'm a bit clumsy in explaining this, but I think it can be deciphered what I mean here. If not, let me know and I'll try to clarify it.)

@ Everyone: Regarding all those mods, imo to use a mod which doesn't affect the save should be in every player's own discretion. Provided that it's actually *certain* that it indeed does *not* affect the save; otherwise we might lose a good bit of progress somewhere down the line. I assume that ItalianGuy knows what he's talking about when it comes to mods, so those mods that he listed as non-save-interfering should be fair game to use. I guess Calad will be the final judge of this (where is he btw? Haven't seen him in a while).

As for those mods that do require everyone to use them, and voting for their perusal: if we must have unanimous votes, we might never get to use those mods, as it seems that at any given time one or two players will be MIA for extended periods of time (as was to be expected; it happens in all SGs). I think a simple majority and Calad's ultimate decision would be good enough here. In any case to avoid mayhem and confusion, etc, I think we should use just Traffic Manager and maybe two or three other mods. It's better to err on the side of caution on this one, imo.

I haven't tried all those mods, but for the ones that interfere with saves, I vote we include Traffic Manager, No Pillars (OR Ingame Terraform mod; the effect is similar, but I think I'd prefer the IG Terraform mod), and the Crossings mod (if it enables one to place them anywhere, and doesn't interfere with Traffic Manager's rather lack-luster version of the same tool).

 

[JerkyJerry]

MODS:
Any of the mods that remove things such as; chirpy, seagulls, cows etc. will improve your computer's performance as there will be far less demand to complete repetitive tasks. So if no one is bothering to even look at chirpy then removing it will have the CPU/RAM do less. Removing seagulls (for example) will have the CPU/RAM do less calculations. So for those of us who have computers that are maybe older (me) then removing those thousands upon thousands of calculations helps in performance/lag/scrolling etc. I can't play the game on the fastest speed as the lag is just terrible. I can use speed #2 until the population gets above a certain number then I have to use the slowest speed only otherwise the lag is just too frustrating.

 

[JerkyJerry]

stiiknafuulia, post@JerkyJerry[/USER]: 650k citizens! Wow! You must have a beast of a computer... With those credentials, I think we'd be wise to follow your advice.

EDIT: The map for the next game I think will be 'Last Paradise'. It's been posted earlier in this thread, but just type that into the Steam Workshop and it should come up in the results. It's not set in stone though, so if you know a better map, feel free to recommend it.

I found a 'Last Paradise 1.3. It is a nice map however the build space is IMHO very limited. There is more water than buildable land and much of the land is raised/unbuildable. I'm more of a fan of real world cities. But then again I'm more of a fan of high population cities. I just like all the challenges that high population cities bring. They are much more difficult to grow/maintain etc. But that is just me

stiiknafuulia = EDIT2: As for assets, there hasn't been any talk about them, but I think it might be too much of a hassle to get everyone to use them. Btw what is the game's behavior when you don't have an asset and try to load a save which uses it? If it's just replaced with 'brown boxes', and doesn't crash the game, then we might consider using custom assets (for the next game at least). If it crashes the game though, it's best to do without them, imo.

As far as I know they are replaced with a generic building. I have not read that they crash anything. It is just that there are so many good ones, I mean really good that add a lot of aesthetics to the city. Authors like Gula for example. If everyone downloaded all of his buildings and other amazing authors maybe that would be the way to go? Rather than looking for individual buildings if we just went by authors it might be easier? Just a thought.

stiiknafuulia = Thanks for the info about the budget percentages. However, I have one more question: when you increase the budget for a service, does it also increase the area of effect of the service building? I got that impression, but I want to be sure, because if this is the case, then it's not clear-cut whether we should use a 150 % budget or 100 %. Even with diminishing returns on the allotted money, the radius increase (which works in the opposite direction; i.e. more bang for the buck as the radius increases) might outweigh the additional cost factor. (I'm a bit clumsy in explaining this, but I think it can be deciphered what I mean here. If not, let me know and I'll try to clarify it.)

I have never once gone over 100% on any budget. Since space has never been an issue (unlike SC2013) I just plop another fire station, school etc. IMHO going above the 100% does not yield the type of benefits that another service building does. Again, that is just my humble opinion.

stiiknafuulia = @ Everyone: Regarding all those mods, imo to use a mod which doesn't affect the save should be in every player's own discretion. Provided that it's actually *certain* that it indeed does *not* affect the save; otherwise we might lose a good bit of progress somewhere down the line. I assume that ItalianGuy knows what he's talking about when it comes to mods, so those mods that he listed as non-save-interfering should be fair game to use. I guess Calad will be the final judge of this (where is he btw? Haven't seen him in a while).

I don't know about this. I'm thinking if I used a mod then someone else did not use the mod it would cause issues but I just don't know. From everything I have read (granted very few posts are about succession games) there will be issues. However I could be wrong. And it would not be too difficult to test anyway. One person use a mod. Save the game. The next player do not use that mod and see what happens. I suppose that is all it would take?

stiiknafuulia = I haven't tried all those mods, but for the ones that interfere with saves, I vote we include Traffic Manager, No Pillars (OR Ingame Terraform mod; the effect is similar, but I think I'd prefer the IG Terraform mod), and the Crossings mod (if it enables one to place them anywhere, and doesn't interfere with Traffic Manager's rather lack-luster version of the same tool).

Unless the ingame terraform mod has been changed since last I used it. A player is going to need 10's of millions of dollars if not more to do any noticeable terraforming. That mod is extremely expensive to use.

 

[ItalianGuy]

Not all mods affect saves making the use of that mod required to load it. For example the extended building mod changes building names and those names are saved, but anyone can open the save without using the mod and will only see the new names. The same should be true for fine road heights, direction changer, pedestrian crosses (not sure about this), terraform tools, mass transport line colour.

An other thing, very important: before we start using Traffic Manager, I need to see how it manages saves, because, to prevent save corruption, it adds an xml file somewhere. I'll keep you informed.

 

[Spockyt]

So I've been trying to play today, and I've been frequently quicksaving, but my computer is freezing every 10 minutes or so while playing Cities Skylines today. I'll try again tomorrow, but if this persists, I'll just concede defeate, and turn over the save with my minor adjustments to Calad.

Or, anyone with any technical knowlage know why this might be happening, and if there is a way to fix it?

 

[stiiknafuulia]

So I've been trying to play today, and I've been frequently quicksaving, but my computer is freezing every 10 minutes or so while playing Cities Skylines today. I'll try again tomorrow, but if this persists, I'll just concede defeate, and turn over the save with my minor adjustments to Calad.

Or, anyone with any technical knowlage know why this might be happening, and if there is a way to fix it?

@Spockyt: So, did you manage to sort out this problem? Where does the game stand atm? I'd suggest lowering the graphical settings, but that was probably the first thing you tried.

@JerkyJerry: For me, the look of the city is much more important than the population number. I also like 'Last Paradise' because there's almost no land outside the buildable area (this is why I prefer island maps in general) -- this way I can 'build everywhere', and not have to worry about all that pristine land that's begging for development right outside the borders..! (Before you ask: yes, I know about the 81 tile mod. Are you aware of what said mod would do to my computer? )

Also, I've read that the game starts to slow down automatically once your city gets big enough. And once the 65k agents are spread thin enough, the simulation of the game starts to break down somewhat. Until modders deal with this issue (if they can), then huge cities don't sound all that appealing to me. The game was designed with maybe 200-300k citizens max in mind after all. We must also be mindful of the fact that not all the members of our group have the necessary hardware power to run cities of extreme magnitude (myself included, I suspect).

EDIT: One other thing: although 'logistically' it makes no sense to build anything but hi-rises in a city, I'd prefer if we preserved some areas as 'low density' Residential and Commercial. Imo it looks much better if a city has both dense, hi-rise 'urban' areas and suburban, 'detached' houses. (It is a problem though that as the low density buildings level up, they tend to become 'mid-rises', worst of both worlds imo. Unless there is a mod for this it can't be helped though).

Regarding terraforming being expensive in the Ingame Terraform mod: that's the idea; that it's reserved for vital projects, like making passes through the high mountains, or adjusting a particular spot so that a new highway can be built, etc. It's to preserve the challenge, while allowing us to overcome the most artifical hurdles (irl they'd just bore a tunnel through that mountain). This all said, it is a tad *too* expensive by default, imo, even with this angle included. But to adjust the default value, we'd have to get all the participants to manually alter it... Or download a modified version of the mod. It's just too much of a hassle imo.

The other option is the No Pillars mod, but as I understand it, using that you can build 'highways through the air', so to speak. While we may just agree not to do that, I don't like the way the mod takes away from the challenge of building in steep terrain. So I prefer the IG Terraform mod over it.

 

[Spockyt]

@Spockyt: So, did you manage to sort out this problem? Where does the game stand atm? I'd suggest lowering the graphical settings, but that was probably the first thing you tried.

Currently, nothing has changed much. I'll give it another try today, if it persists, I'll give up, and pass my minor adjustments on to Calad.