succesful assault

[Wil]

Hello guys,

I was already quite a long time looking around at this great forum before I signed up .

my question is: I cannot find a general rule in assault technics: Generally, how many infantry and cannons do I need for a succesfull assault ? (i.e. breaking defenders morale). So often my infantry assaults do not work out the way I want. Even when the walls are already down to -2, they often get a blooded nose. Please enlight me

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Some things I do know (correct me if I'm wrong ):

important for defender and attacker:

- (high) Morale ( extra morale for Reformed and Turks )
- (high) Landtech level ( inflicts more damage to opponents morale )
- (high) standard leader value ( sweden: 3 shock, prussia: 3 firepower )
- Standard fortress/siege level ( +1 for Venice, Portugal, Holland, Knights )

defender only:

- Fortress level
- Terrain bonus fortress level ( +2 mountain, woods, swamp )

attacker only:

- assault done by a (good) historical leader
- (high) siege value = cannons ( minimum 30 x fortress level )
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[Braedonnal]

Assaults are all about infantry. Normally you want to batter the walls a bit with cannon until they are at (-4) before you assault. Morale advantages are very important as is a good leader. Tech advantages don't hurt to have but you cannot always count on that. It will take longer to batter walls down in a province that has terrible terrain like marsh. A good sized infantry force is very important as they do the fighting and absorb the losses. Sometimes you will be unlucky with the dice and you will get trounced upon. Just be sure to send additional infantry to bolster these weakened armies as morale is awful after a failed assault plus they might raise morale high enough to assault again while the garrison's morale is low.

As to numbers, it really depends on the size of the fortress you are assaulting. I know that a 30,000 man infantry army can normally obliterate a level one and two fortress, bombardment or not unless it's in terrible terrain. Level 3's are tougher and need some bombardment I find unless I have limitless supplies of manpower. Level 4's and above I always bombard down to (-4) before assaulting unless I have a huge tech/leader/morale advantage like against say Nippon or China.

For bombardment, you want 30 to 1 cannon to fortress level ratio and adding a siege leader is highly advised. You want 60 to 1 in wretched terrain like marsh and mountains and you need to keep sending reinforcements as these types of terrain normally have poor province support. You don't want attrition to start eating away cannon so make sure the army has infantry.

That's all I can think of but I am sure others will teach us some things we didn't know.

 

[Braedonnal]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Welcome to the forum!

 

[Nikolai II]

For assaults a 'breach' is vital since it makes a lot of difference.

A breach is when you get a crack in the wall on the siege-screen.

For later sieges on coastal cities you'd better blockade with a few warships (once tech allows). A blockaded port city will fall as fast as if it were inland. A non-blockaded port city gets a hidden +2 bonus and gets no penalties for starvation.

 

[Wil]

Assaults are all about infantry. Normally you want to batter the walls a bit with cannon until they are at (-4) before you assault. Morale advantages are very important as is a good leader. Tech advantages don't hurt to have but you cannot always count on that. It will take longer to batter walls down in a province that has terrible terrain like marsh. A good sized infantry force is very important as they do the fighting and absorb the losses. Sometimes you will be unlucky with the dice and you will get trounced upon. Just be sure to send additional infantry to bolster these weakened armies as morale is awful after a failed assault plus they might raise morale high enough to assault again while the garrison's morale is low.

As to numbers, it really depends on the size of the fortress you are assaulting. I know that a 30,000 man infantry army can normally obliterate a level one and two fortress, bombardment or not unless it's in terrible terrain. Level 3's are tougher and need some bombardment I find unless I have limitless supplies of manpower. Level 4's and above I always bombard down to (-4) before assaulting unless I have a huge tech/leader/morale advantage like against say Nippon or China.

For bombardment, you want 30 to 1 cannon to fortress level ratio and adding a siege leader is highly advised. You want 60 to 1 in wretched terrain like marsh and mountains and you need to keep sending reinforcements as these types of terrain normally have poor province support. You don't want attrition to start eating away cannon so make sure the army has infantry.

That's all I can think of but I am sure others will teach us some things we didn't know.

Braedonnal and Nikolai, Thanks for your tips en these rules of the thumb. Braedonnal, I'm still puzzled about the thing you wrote: "batter the walls a bit with cannon until they are at (-4)". For example, when I'm sieging a fortress level 2 in bad terrain, the walls are already 8 points down when they are at -4 !! Why assault in that late stage ? Better then is to "sit the siege out" for maybe another two months. What do you think ?

 

[Nikolai II]

For example, when I'm sieging a fortress level 2 in bad terrain, the walls are already 8 points down when they are at -4 !! Why assault in that late stage ? Better then is to "sit the siege out" for maybe another two months. What do you think ?

If you are sieging a port city without any siege bonuses from leaders or guns it can remain at -5 almost indefinitely (a year or two, or more)

And if winter has arrived bring attrition up from 4% to 20% that might be your cue for assaulting.

But else I'd usually wait a siege that has gone for so long, unless large enemy relief forces are approaching in which case I might consider assault as well.

 

[unmerged(21523)]

Here's a trick that's only recommended when playing nations like France or Russia with inexhaustible manpower: Send in the troops, immediately assault, this assault will probably fail, but the garrison should be softened up. Then, send in reinforcements and assault again. 2 assaults should be enough totake most fortresses level 3 or under

 

[Braedonnal]

The (-4) is for later on, when the fortresses are tough, level six fortresses are brutal to assault unless really softened up. I just assault immediately if it's a level 1 or 2 fortress and if it fails reinforce and assault again like Zach said.

 

[unmerged(21523)]

Be real careful with the larger forts. My greatest learning curve incident via large fortresses came when I decided to assault a Level 5 fortresses in hostile territory--my entire army of 35,000 men and 220 cannon was destroyed

 

[Braedonnal]

Yep, you have to love when troops die faster than morale loss and the entire force is obliterated on the assault, wrecking all your hard work to that point since the siege is broken.

 

[unmerged(25223)]

A few more questions on this good thread:

1. How do I get a breach?
Sometimes they appear, sometimes they don't. Is there a way to make them more common? Does a certain ratio of cannon:fortress -always- trigger them?

2. For a rule-of-thumb such as 30 cannon:wall-level, does having 60 cannon (in the same terrain) help, or don't the extra 30 count?

3. How low can a wall get? I thought -5 was the lowest, but last night one was still holding out at -8 ...
It had <200 defenders left, and a Russian Winter was coming ... so I assaulted, and missed out on seeing how much lower it might have gone.

 

[Morpheus506]

Lowest I've ever seen is -8, but I can't be sure what the lowest is. Conceivably it could be -10...

 

[Nikolai II]

Lowest I've ever seen is -8, but I can't be sure what the lowest is. Conceivably it could be -10...

I think I have seen a -9 or -10, but never lower than that.. (and they are rare enough..)

 

[Carolus Rex]

I've seen -10 multiple times.

 

[Nikolai II]

I've seen -10 multiple times.

Seems like someone has nothing better to do than looking at sieges..

 

[Carolus Rex]

Seems like someone has nothing better to do than looking at sieges..

Or maybe I just have a good memory plus have played the game to pieces?

 

[dtroiani]

Well, when sieges last for a very long time, what else is there to do but watch them.

 

[Nikolai II]

Well, when sieges last for a very long time, what else is there to do but watch them.

Usually fight the rest of the war/send colonists/merchants - but sometimes there is nothing else to do yea

 

[unmerged(25223)]

Ok, after re-reading the FAQ's calcs, there's a section in there about how to create a breach. Great ... now, to understand it ...

I understand the cannon needs, the terrain effects and so on...
(Unfortunately, they don't reflect well on my Russian Maths of "10 cannon costs 32000 soldiers. We should take the infantry and swarm...")

I'm a bit confused on the leader's siege value, though. The army shows the leader's Movement, Fire and Shock bonuses. Where is the siege bonus?

 

[unmerged(21523)]

Ok, after re-reading the FAQ's calcs, there's a section in there about how to create a breach. Great ... now, to understand it ...

I understand the cannon needs, the terrain effects and so on...
(Unfortunately, they don't reflect well on my Russian Maths of "10 cannon costs 32000 soldiers. We should take the infantry and swarm...")

I'm a bit confused on the leader's siege value, though. The army shows the leader's Movement, Fire and Shock bonuses. Where is the siege bonus?

If no siege bonus is listed, that's because there is none (i.e. siege bonus=0). Siege bonuses are relatively rare, and most of the leaders who have a siege bonus have only a 1. The best I've seen is French leader Vauban, who has a siege bonus of 4 .