Subsistence and Proletarian farmers vs Small Landowners

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acidsun

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With the buildings dev diary explaining how subsitence farms and other related buildings work, I have been wondering something.

So far, it seems we have only two levels of farming: subsistence, which produces a marginal surplus, and larger scale farms which work in a more capitalist manner. Or, if you're communist, probably a collectivized farm that even though owned by the State or by the workers, still functions based on large scale agriculture. And only two types of farmers: poor proletarian peasants who either work for subsistence or for someone else; or those who own the farms.

But there is a third system which was very much present in the 1800`s and was essential to the development of some countries (According to some scholars - see Joe Studwell's "How Asia Works") - small landowners and "profitable gardening"

These were small farms that produced mostly vegetables and fruits (Rice as well). They are very labor intensive and can produce significant surpluses even on very small properties. They were usually owned by some sort of lower middle class of farmers (Instead of aristocrats or large landowners) and were essential to the development of Asian economies (Some say of every european nation and USA as well). Japan, for instance, both after the Meiji Restoration and after WWII, imposed severe restrictions on how much land you could own. Anyone with more than ~3 hectares had their land expropriated and distributed at low prices to those who worked there (Known as the Land to the Tiller policy). Some argue that this system was also essential for Europe`s and North America's development, since instead of producing commodity crops for exporting or industrial consumption, they produced food for local demand which made living in cities cheaper as well as generated rural income (And thus larger demand for urban goods and services), two factors that boosted industrial growth in cities.

TL;DR: So my question is: will there be some sort of "Small landowner" class, which is not as poor as subsistence farmers (Who generate little surplus) or proletarian peasants (Who work in the farms of aristocrats or large landowners, to the profit of these landowners) but not as rich as the aristocrats and landowners (Who do not work in their own farms), but rather form some sort of "middle class farmer" that works on their own farms and reap the profits of their own work?

Why this would be significant enough to be represented in the game?
- Small landowners vs collectivized farming was a frequent debate among communists and social democrats
- Small landowners tended to have different ideologies from peasants (Who later tended to be socialist) as well as aristocrats/large landowners (Who always tended to be more conservative). They tended to be more liberal-ish.
- US immigration was greatly encouraged through the Homestead Acts, which game small plots of land to individual farmers. Here there was a policy debate between northerners and southerners. The former wanted small farms owned by individual farmers rather than the southerner's preference for large plantations.
- Land reform in general was a huge debate through the 1800`s
- Small landowners would consume different degrees of demand than others. They wouldn't demand as much luxury goods as aristocrats, but would be able to consume more than peasants.
- Ottomans suffered from some crises when large scale plantations focused on cash crops instead of producing food for local consumption. When the prices of cash crops dropped, regions with more presence of small landowners suffered less.
- If the game is going to represent anarchist worker cooperatives, which were rare or never existed, it ought to represent this very common class and means of production.
 
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Spartakusbund

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I really hope this is modeled as well. It’ll make for some interesting choices after the American Civil War. Do you go down the historical path of replacing slave based plantation agriculture with sharecropping? Or do you go full “40 Acres and a Mule” and create a bunch of small property owners?
 
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mikhail321

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Excellent point! It is very relevant to Russian history as well. The Russian revolution is very much blamed on peasant reform’s failure to produce small landholder class as opposed to subsistence farmers and rural proletarians (‘batraks’) it was very much due to the fear of Imperial government and conservative circles that the small landowners will be hard to control politically. Stolypin’s reforms tried to rectify it in 1900s, but they largely failed amid resistance from conservatives and socialists alike. Would be great to be able to explore the alternative history. Hope it can be modded in at least.
 
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acidsun

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Excellent point! It is very relevant to Russian history as well. The Russian revolution is very much blamed on peasant reform’s failure to produce small landholder class as opposed to subsistence farmers and rural proletarians (‘batraks’) it was very much due to the fear of Imperial government and conservative circles that the small landowners will be hard to control politically. Stolypin’s reforms tried to rectify it in 1900s, but they largely failed amid resistance from conservatives and socialists alike. Would be great to be able to explore the alternative history. Hope it can be modded in at least.

That's true! Another good example. I believe there might be many more, since this debate was huge back then.

The way I see it, it could be either represented in the game by a different profession, and/or a different form of production method.

That is, besides a plantation building being privately owned (Meaning aristocrats own and reap the profits) or worker cooperative (Meaning it is collectivized), another production method that represents that the farms in that state are not concentrated in the hands of few aristocrats but are not a socialist form of production either. But instead share the "dividends" among the farmers anyway.
 

mikhail321

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That's true! Another good example. I believe there might be many more, since this debate was huge back then.

The way I see it, it could be either represented in the game by a different profession, and/or a different form of production method.

That is, besides a plantation building being privately owned (Meaning aristocrats own and reap the profits) or worker cooperative (Meaning it is collectivized), another production method that represents that the farms in that state are not concentrated in the hands of few aristocrats but are not a socialist form of production either. But instead share the "dividends" among the farmers anyway.
I think in game terms it may be too hard to differentiate between a proper worker cooperative (not to be confused with effectively state-owned collective farm) and a collection of small holdings. I just hope this form is not limited to socialist regimes.
 
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dunka2

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So I suspect that these small holders will be lumped in with aristocrats which makes some amount of sense to a degree. In the UK, most of the land was owned by only about 10% of the population pretty much from the beginning of the Enclosure Acts up to the present day (the percentage has actually shrunk in fact). In the USA, small holders were really more on the level of subsistence farmers until large-scale mechanisation after the 1870s which is broadly true in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa.

It might be better to have a separate class of 'gentry' pops who will get incomes from a separate type of farm which is smaller but more productive than aristocratic estates but can only exist in a country that has reformed past feudalism. I can also see the argument for lumping them in with aristocrats as the gentry did usually trend conservative in the countries they existed in with numbers large enough to be important, though this was usually only the case in countries that granted voting rights by wealth or property ownership. This does cause an issue the USA for example as the aristocratic IG is supposed to represent slave-owners in the South which wouldn't make sense for gentry from the North and Western Territories, who while conservative also supported abolition.

Also I think you are confusing Meiji Japan's Land Tax Reform with Communist Vietnam's land reform which was known as the 'Land to the Tiller' policy while Japan simply reformed land taxation and instituted private ownership. The Meiji government only redistributed the confiscated land of uncooperative daimyo, though this was usually sold to whoever paid the most. The Meiji reforms did give lease-holders greater rights to their land (which was important in fostering greater investment), but they still didn't own it.
 

Meanmanturbo

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I thought about this myself, here in a Swedish context. Most land was owned by small landowners. Now they in turn hired farmhands and so on so there is a spot for proletariat farmers, but calling these landowners aristocrats is a bit of a stretch. Should be some middle strata farmer to represent these types that get dividends without going full anachist commune. Sort of like shookeepers.

Edit

For Swedes or those familiar with Astrid Lindgren, the picture that comes to my mind when I think about these middle strata farmers is Emil i Lönneberga and his family.
 
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acidsun

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So I suspect that these small holders will be lumped in with aristocrats which makes some amount of sense to a degree. In the UK, most of the land was owned by only about 10% of the population pretty much from the beginning of the Enclosure Acts up to the present day (the percentage has actually shrunk in fact). In the USA, small holders were really more on the level of subsistence farmers until large-scale mechanisation after the 1870s which is broadly true in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa.

I really hope this won't happen for the same reasons as you've mentioned later on.

Although the Interest Group mechanics might allow for aristocrats to join abolitionist IGs, what concerns me is really the degree of income as well as the sheer number of pops in that profession, that tends to be different (Unless Vic3 has a more flexible promotion system). It would just be weird to have so many upper class pops when they are just small farmers. Especially if demands are somehow tied to the strata.

The same applies to lower class farmers. But I think it would be more acceptable to fit them into these lower class farmers than aristocrats, if a choice had to be made.

Also I think you are confusing Meiji Japan's Land Tax Reform with Communist Vietnam's land reform which was known as the 'Land to the Tiller' policy while Japan simply reformed land taxation and instituted private ownership. The Meiji government only redistributed the confiscated land of uncooperative daimyo, though this was usually sold to whoever paid the most. The Meiji reforms did give lease-holders greater rights to their land (which was important in fostering greater investment), but they still didn't own it.


"Land to the Tiller" policies were practiced all over Asia since the Meiji Restoration. They might not have been called so but they were.

And well, according to what I've read, there was significant reform in Meiji Japan that greatly reduced the number of large landowners. So much so that after WWII, the US promoted another land reform that sought to re-distribute what was concentrated once again between Meiji and the 30's. My source on this is the book I mentioned: Joe Studwelll's How Asia Works. If you could share yours so I can improve my knowledge, I'd be grateful.
 

Shadowstrike

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I'm wondering if there will be distinctions between subsistence farmers based on whether the land is owned by the aristocracy, held collectively by villages or owned individually. It feels like those categories should be modeled differently.