Subs and fuel/supplies

[Wolf52]

Hi guys, i have a question about how the game determines when to cut off a mission and return to port because of dwindling supplies and fuel. I am trying to put together a net of subs as the Germans to cover the Atlantic. Case in point is a sub flotilla I sent from Lorient to the seas of St Helena to convoy raid. They conducted their mission for a while, patrolling in the area, then they automatically turned back when oil got low. However, they only got the Azores before fuel ran out, so its going to take a very long time to finish the last (and most dangerous) part of the trip. Is the return to base order issued at a certain amount of fuel? Or is it actually trying to calculate how much it will need to get back?

If i actually have to watch fuel levels on every flotilla this game is going to be maddening once I invade Russia...

 

[unmerged(526990)]

Hi guys, i have a question about how the game determines when to cut off a mission and return to port because of dwindling supplies and fuel. I am trying to put together a net of subs as the Germans to cover the Atlantic. Case in point is a sub flotilla I sent from Lorient to the seas of St Helena to convoy raid. They conducted their mission for a while, patrolling in the area, then they automatically turned back when oil got low. However, they only got the Azores before fuel ran out, so its going to take a very long time to finish the last (and most dangerous) part of the trip. Is the return to base order issued at a certain amount of fuel? Or is it actually trying to calculate how much it will need to get back?

If i actually have to watch fuel levels on every flotilla this game is going to be maddening once I invade Russia...

I've noticed the same thing. It can be really annoying! I'm not sure if there's any way around it if you want them to be out day and night a long way from your bases (which you do in this case).

 

[Blecky]

Assuming you´re using long range subs which have a range of 5,500 km. The sea zones around St Helena are 4,500 to 5,200 km away from Lorient. I don´t know if there´s a minimum of time for carrying out the convoy raiding mission, but patrolling at almost maximum range should have its risks. The longer the distance the more likely unfavorable weather and other unpleasant surprises are.

 

[dec152000]

Hi,

AFAIK this aspect is all hard code other than the suppply/oil on board and the burn rate. The coded portion of the AI only looks at Damage and Organization to determine when to terminate a mission.

mm

 

[Wolf52]

Assuming you´re using long range subs which have a range of 5,500 km. The sea zones around St Helena are 4,500 to 5,200 km away from Lorient. I don´t know if there´s a minimum of time for carrying out the convoy raiding mission, but patrolling at almost maximum range should have its risks. The longer the distance the more likely unfavorable weather and other unpleasant surprises are.

My first thought was that there was a minimum time as well, but that doesn't explain why the shorter distance patrols also have this problem.

Hi,

AFAIK this aspect is all hard code other than the suppply/oil on board and the burn rate. The coded portion of the AI only looks at Damage and Organization to determine when to terminate a mission.

mm

Hmm, I'm assuming you changed both the burn rate and the capacity right? Maybe the hard coded part was only designed for a fixed rate and capacity. Then again I'm just shooting in the dark here. I'm surprised something like this wasn't noticed in the stock game unless my theory is right.

 

[unmerged(526990)]

I've always been under the distinct impression that it does try to calculate this properly but just gets it a bit wrong. Obviously the strength/order calculation comes first though.

 

[dec152000]

Hi,

Yes, changed both values. There are a number of modifiers to the burn rates which may not be getting properly addressed in the hard code. In any case, I don't think there is anything I can do to prevent this behavior.

mm

 

[Wolf52]

Hi,

Yes, changed both values. There are a number of modifiers to the burn rates which may not be getting properly addressed in the hard code. In any case, I don't think there is anything I can do to prevent this behavior.

mm

So then perhaps this is something that the main game devs can possibly address? Or is there no new patch work happening?

 

[unmerged(526990)]

So then perhaps this is something that the main game devs can possibly address? Or is there no new patch work happening?

I think the generally accepted fact is that there'll never be another patch for the hard code again, alas.

 

[Wolf52]

Hmm, then what values would I need to change to go back to stock numbers? This is a really annoying issue.

 

[dec152000]

Hi,

Not sure how to do this as we are using code differently than AoD.. IF you want to experiment I'd assign all applicable Naval units a 60 day allocation of Supplies and fuel based on normal consumption rates. This might get something closer to what Vanilla was using. The commands in the unit files are:

max_supply_stock = x.xx
max_oil_stock = x.xx

good luck, modding s always interesting!

mm

 

[Wolf52]

Hi,

Not sure how to do this as we are using code differently than AoD.. IF you want to experiment I'd assign all applicable Naval units a 60 day allocation of Supplies and fuel based on normal consumption rates. This might get something closer to what Vanilla was using. The commands in the unit files are:

max_supply_stock = x.xx
max_oil_stock = x.xx

good luck, modding s always interesting!

mm

# Supply Usage Naval Static (value below * normal supply consumtion)
0.5 # was 1.0
# Supply Usage Naval Moving (value below * normal supply consumtion)
1.3 # was 1.1
# Supply Usage Naval Battle (value below * normal supply consumtion)
3.0 # was 5.0
# _EV_SUPPLIES_STOCK_NAVAL_, amount of stock stored in each divison - of combat usage
12.0

Would changing these values from misc.txt make any difference? I was hoping not to have to mod every naval unit.

 

[dec152000]

Hi,

I suspect no since these values reference Supply rather than Fuel. However it might work. Really pretty easy to mod the unit files. I've spent more time on this thread than would be required to edit those entries.

mm

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Overwriting the values for each division seperately like dec152000 sugggest seems the only proper solution.

In vanilla AoD unbrigaded land divisions have 14 days of supplies and 7 days fuel, unbrigaded air divisions have 14 days of supplies and 14 days fuel and for unbrigaded naval divisions it is 90 days of supplies and 30 days of fuel. In each case that is of the consumption rate shown in the units statics. None of those values seem to correlate with the multipliers for combat usage or _EV_SUPPLIES_STOCK. Also it should be noted that brigades use twice the stockpile / consumption ratios than the divisions themselves.

It might be worth to think about a stockpile enhencement brigade. I am not sure if their stockpiles can be overwritten aswell.

 

[dec152000]

Hi.

Unfortunately for CORE that would not work right as we have units that by design only can have 1 Attachment. So it would require a complete rework of how we model DD and SS type units.

mm

 

[Wolf52]

So I did end up modding the unit files (as well as all of my active subs) and it appears that the signal to return is tied to when supplies run out, not fuel. I havent been able to do a complete test as i am in the middle of Barbarossa as well, but it seems like the subs are arriving back at port just as supplies run out. Perhaps in a future patch you can mod units so supplies are likely to run out first?

 

[dec152000]

Wolf,

If you could test this a bit more and report back that would be great. The current Supply values that I'm seeing stored on the SS units seem to be higher than designed. Not sure what is driving that, but changing the settings in the file does seem to work at least. So we may need to adjust some values. I believe the Fuel is working properly. Please bear in mind that the intended patrol durations are substantially shorter than what Vanilla uses:

Short: 14-16
Medium: 16-30
Long: 28-50
Very Long: 44-56

Looking to release a 0.70 Beta here in the next month. So any info is very timely. thanks!

mm

 

[Wolf52]

Sorry I haven't had time to get around to a proper test yet, but real life has gotten in the way recently. I hope to do something early next week. In my unofficial observations it does seem to be fuel driven, although this is in my limited playing as Germany, where even one flotilla sub fleets have trouble after the first couple years just surviving.

 

[dec152000]

Hi,

Whenever you find the time will be great.

mm

 

[Zsar1]

It seems that (in smaller scale) this issue is also present on surface ships. The BC+CL+DD fleet I used for my naval battle tests carries ~1/3 of its total supply as dead weight.
This fleet, however, does - if barely - manage to return to port without running completely out of fuel.

addendum:

Actually, scratch that. Fuel consumption seems to be a bit variable. I just saw my other fleet with the same composition out of fuel in the Rockall Bank; it has 48% (53.9 of 110.6) supplies left.