[Submod] Turks,Mongols & Mamluks; plus a few changes for HIP - Updated as - TMM History Only.1.9.20

[Submod] Turks,Mongols & Mamluks; plus a few changes for HIP - Updated as - TMM History Only.1.9.20

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Ispil

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Would you ever consider making a Timur-Mod? Since there are not many people interested that much into Central Asia I thought you might be willing to give it a try since you seem very dedicated. I could do a lot filling in Historical characters but I am not that versed in direct modding.
I suspect Timur would be difficult to do properly due to his appearance after any start date in-game, not to mention the specific circumstances of his rise. I suppose you could abstract it as "local tribal chieftain gains power and takes over state."

Just keep in mind, the Wikipedia article on Timur is greatly inaccurate regarding his rise.
 
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ernst_earnest

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I suspect Timur would be difficult to do properly due to his appearance after any start date in-game, not to mention the specific circumstances of his rise. I suppose you could abstract it as "local tribal chieftain gains power and takes over state."

Just keep in mind, the Wikipedia article on Timur is greatly inaccurate regarding his rise.
I read Tamerlane by Justin Marozzi.
Yes that with the start date would require lots of work I fear
 
Updated 6.10.18

Qutb87

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Update time. I was intending to hold off completely until a new HIP release but thought I 'd show what I've been busy with.

Naturally this will require a new save.

Changelog: 6-10-18

TMM: Basics

Slave Armies
- Refined the slave army mechanics. The amount they increase by is now tied to your castle construction technology level. Couldn't get it to work in relation to actual castle keep size.
- The ability to actually increase size is now limited to the slave army power level. Armies with an equal relative power to their liege cannot be increased.
- Circumstances involving their disbanding now more defined. They need to be a certain size,threat or wealth level to their liege before the option even appears.
- If an attempt is made to disband, they may peacefully dissolve on your command or in worst cases become landless raiding adventurers. It works but is still experimental.
- An ambitious commander may ask to increase troop size himself.

Slave commanders, courtiers, rulers etc
- Lowered stats for instant recruit soldiers in response to feedback. Their base stats are now the same as the generic employable nobles.
- Over time child trainee mamluks etc now a appear for king-tier and above rulers who have recruited the above mentioned commanders. As such they can be trained in any education.
- Generals of slave armies including the Mamluk & Ghilman companies now recruit 2 of their own commanders. Dependent on whether their liege is also doing so.
- Events for commanders of slave companies similar to the vanilla mercenary tombola chain. These are the basics of more interactive events for them which I'm creating.

Historic characters and landed rulers
- More or less fully mapped out the historic Mamluk na'ibs of Damascus from 1265-1337. Many of their subordinates and contemporaries also now present. More to come.
- Added more governors in upper Egypt from the mamluk era. Again this is still ongoing.
- More wives and daughters added for mainly the Qalawunids but also Baibars al-Zahir.
- More historic courtiers added. Many of these will eventually be landed once I get to their relevant holdings.
- Sifted through various characters and granted them traits based on the records I have. As well as adding relevant causes of death to history files.

Other stuff
-
Mamluk and Ghilman companies can now be vassalised by relevant rulers.
- Sorted out an issue where slave armies were given land by their liege somehow on rare occasions. Almost always happened in the Seljuk expansion starts.
- I am working on trying to make it so they are landed with a baron tier castle in your capital. However this is a long way down the road.
- Various localisation fixes for the sub-mod's events, decisions etc. There are still more to do however.

As always these are still WIP so things may be very different for the next release. Any suggestions/feedback heartily received and need!

Requirements: 2018-06-21 (Hydra6)

I have the full HIP installed as below

[HIP Release 2018-06-21 (Hydra6)]
EMF: Extended Mechanics & Flavor (v8.06 - 2018-06-21)
Arumba and Internal Tab Shortcuts (2018-06-16)
ARKO Interface (2018-06-16)
SWMH (v3.12 - 2018-06-21)
ARKO Armoiries (2018-06-16)
LTM (C - 2017-12-09)
CPRplus (v2.9.4 - 2018-05-02)

As far as DLC is concerned I have everything except the Aztec one.

Install as you would any mod.

Place both the MOD.file and the TMM Basics folder in your CK2 mod folder area.
...........................................................

Thanks to Aasmul and the HIP team

As well as elvain's below thread which I think helps greatly with the mechanics of how to represent much of this idea in game.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...nd-enhanced-islam.905195/page-2#post-20617714
 

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greek strategos

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Nice. Keep it up ;)
 

Zobertus

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Shouldn't the Mamluk na'ib of Damascus Tankiz in the latest start dates have sons? The Wikipedia page about him says that he had 3 sons, all of whom became emirs during an-Nasir's reign. The oldest of them, Ali, is said to have become an emir in 1331, within CK2's timeline. Correct me if I or Wikipedia are wrong.

Nevertheless for gameplay reasons I think it would be good to give Tankiz sons, some ideally with counties of their own under him: It would help ease the demesne limit pressure as Tankiz starts 8 above his demesne limit. Not to mention the fact that he is already old without male relatives and the Sultan is his heir, which often results in even more bordergore in the Mamluk state with all those random nobodies given lands to ease the demesne limit. Who likes ahistorical nobodies when you could fill the ranks with historical ones? :)

I apologize if you already have noted this (and probably many other things to do in Mamluk Egypt) and are working on it! Keep up the good work with this amazing submod!
 

Qutb87

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Oh certainly. Among other things I'm slowly updating the families of as many emirs as I go along. Tankiz was briefly succeeded as na'ib by the chap ruling over Aleppo. Obviously I suspect it would have been different had he not been executed. The demesne limit should also be alleviated once I add quite a few of the other emirs he ruled over in the Sultan's name.

Nevertheless this ties into one of the other things I'm working on. Namely a more dynamic succession for certain powerful governors with offspring. Tankiz would be a good example for this.

EDIT; This has also prompted me to look into making the Dul-Qadirs of Elbistan vassals or at least tributaries of an-Nasir during this period.
 
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Qutb87

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That is the only thing which I find really promising about HF. From what they have mentioned, it may just be possible to mod the sort of government and succession the Mamluks of Egypt ran.

Although also disappointing since it shows what they could achieve if they devoted even a fraction of what they did for HF to some representation of mamluks etc.
 

High Elder Ash

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That is the only thing which I find really promising about HF. From what they have mentioned, it may just be possible to mod the sort of government and succession the Mamluks of Egypt ran.

Although also disappointing since it shows what they could achieve if they devoted even a fraction of what they did for HF to some representation of mamluks etc.
Yeah, the Staff were using the excuse that they didn't have enough time, lmao. Potentially, they could release stuff later. Could be interesting if Paradox released their own mods, so the content can't be forced into the game, but we can download what we like. Holy Fury is the last DLC, I think, but that doesn't mean they won't release a patch or two afterwards.
 

myrt

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Yeah, the Staff were using the excuse that they didn't have enough time, lmao. Potentially, they could release stuff later. Could be interesting if Paradox released their own mods, so the content can't be forced into the game, but we can download what we like. Holy Fury is the last DLC, I think, but that doesn't mean they won't release a patch or two afterwards.
They'll keep releasing DLC as long as it sells. It's much cheaper than having to make a brand-new game with overhauled mechanics. There's a reason they gave out the game for free for a limited period, you know
 

High Elder Ash

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They'll keep releasing DLC as long as it sells. It's much cheaper than having to make a brand-new game with overhauled mechanics. There's a reason they gave out the game for free for a limited period, you know
True. I read that it was supposed to be the last DLC, but I never read an official post from Paradox about it so, what you say makes perfect sense to me.
 

famaouz

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What's the state of this mod? Is this still being worked on? If it is, just ignore this question :p
 

Qutb87

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I've updated the title histories as well as character files to the latest HIP. However I'm not pleased with the landless mercenary concept for the slave armies. They simply end up with vast amounts of cash so them rebelling due to lack of pay makes no sense. I'm currently trying to make it so they obtain a baron tier castle in your capital duchy when the slave regiment is established. That way they actually spend the bundles of cash they earn and the rebellion/riot events due to lack of pay I've set up make sense.
 
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Farabi

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I'm glad to see this mod, it really adds another necessary dimension to the CK2 Islamic world! Do you have any plans for implementing Mamluk succession/government mechanics, or at very least feudal elective and imperial government? It's always bothered me that such a unique state apparatus functions in-game just like every other Muslim dysnasty...
 

Qutb87

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Thanks, glad it's well received. I'll leave the government modding attempts ( if any ) to much later. Before HIP was updated I had a look at vanilla and was playing around with various ideas, the 867 Abbasid Empire in particular. Though it's much more time consuming. I'm trying to conflict with HIP as little as possible so this naturally hinders things.

On a side note I think I've got the dynamic slave armies to function pretty well as landed barony holders located in or around your capital city. This is how they would have been set up in real life too. Now also looking at what can be done with the fixed ghilman and mamluk duchies rather than deleting them altogether.
 
Updated 10.03.19 - (Furry2) compatible

Qutb87

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Yuuuuge update.
May as well release something now or I never will....

Changelog: 10-03-19

TMM: Basics for (Furry2)

Slave Armies

-
They are now set up to have landed baron tier castles either in or adjacent to your capital province.
- Achieved via targeted decision on whichever non-dynastic, non-religious head etc baron whose castle you intend to "acquire".


- As such slave armies can only be enlarged, improved etc if they are landed. They can still function unlanded and there are decisions to grant them barony holdings if needed.

- Mamluks now exist only after 1240 and as-Salih's rise to power. They are based in the b_fustat holding and I have assigned historical characters who served as Atabek al-'Asakir to the title where possible. They can also still be created similar to the Varangians by decision after the Mongol Empire arrives.

- The Ghilmans now exist for the Abbasids but I am yet to work on them regarding holdings. They can be assigned a barony.

- Both Ghilman and Mamluks can be enlarged provided they are landed. They are also capable of rebelling if provoked or if they prefer your heir. Keep a sharp eye on their opinion.

- Slave commanders can only be jailed or suffer hostile diplomatic acts if they have been stripped of their command. Granting them diplomatic immunity is a workaround to stop the AI being dumb and trying to revoke their baronies. They can still be assasinated.

Obviously I intend to flesh all this out massively with their landed or landless status having effects on rebellion, morale, declining numbers, possibly factions etc. For now I just needed to see if it works.
At least with land they now have cause to spend the incredible amounts of money mercenaries hoard.

Historic characters and landed rulers
- Added much needed offspring and wives to three major mamluk emirs.
- Kitbugha, Tankiz and Qarasunqur now have their named historical sons. I'll probably add their named grandchildren too at some point. Tankiz now has his most well known spouse.
- Further source based additions to Levantine title history files. Chiefly more Mamluk governors of Kerak as well as regions in Edessa and Antioch. The Khwarezmian future father in law of Baybars now also holds Jerusalem when relevant. I intend my first war bookmark to be the Battle of La Forbie so this history change is the beginning of that modding process.

Retinues, buildings etc.
-Feudal Levantine and Egyptian Arabs no longer use camels. Replaced by Mujaffafat al-khayl which is supposed to represent the cataphract style cavalry employed in particular by central Islamic powers from the Ummayads onward. Either freeborn nobles or ghulams and mentioned regularly in both Muslim and Byzantine sources.

- Also given them the embolon tactic since their armies would have been heavily influenced by their Byzantine opponents and vice versa.

- Their castle culture now gives cavalry but this is just a placeholder.

I mainly used David Nicolle's paper on horse armour in the Islamic Middle East for unit name as well as the general idea.

-Various new buildings to really beef up Berber,Bedouin and other tribals. Tied to things such as terrain and culture. Norse rulers in eastern European provinces with ports get special buildings too.

- Certain cultures ( e.g Yemenis, Latin groups in Outremer, Ethiopians ) or religious orders ( Ismail'i assassins) if feudal also get new buildings to highlight historical martial characteristics.

Government
-Muslims can call tribal vassals to arms yet receive no tax from them. Hopefully provides some historic parallel especially with the more powerful tribals. In early bookmarks they should be valuable yet volatile military vassals.

Removed features
- Trainee mamluks; they kept being culled by the game often when reaching the age of 16. This is generally an issue anyway with many historical courtiers not being tagged as essential in large courts.
- The ghulam dynasty traits will be gone in the next release as they are pointless

Things to do
Far too much to say. Essentially whatever you think can be improved/added is probably what I also want to do!

Requirements: HIP Release - 2019-03-04 (Furry2) - Full SWMH & EMF

Install as you would any mod.

Place both the MOD.file and the TMM Basics folder in your CK2 mod folder area.
...........................................................

Thanks to Aasmul and the HIP team
 

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famaouz

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-Feudal Levantine and Egyptian Arabs no longer use camels. Replaced by Mujaffafat al-khayl which is supposed to represent the cataphract style cavalry employed in particular by central Islamic powers from the Ummayads onward. Either freeborn nobles or ghulams and mentioned regularly in both Muslim and Byzantine sources.
Gameplay-wise, what's the difference between Mujaffafat and camels (beside the name)?
I always thought 'camels' in the game are just Arabs' elite cavalry and not actual camels as most of the elite cavalry in Islamic medieval era use horses.
 

Qutb87

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I'm no expert on the unit stats but there are differences, at least in vanilla as per the wiki for 2.8. HC are better at melee, have higher morale and are more expensive. In other words represent professional upper echelon soldiery.

Camels were used by everybody in the area as they are invaluable working animals particularly in desert environments. However as regular massed armies of settled urban civilizations (which is what I take units/levies etc to present) not really. To me it makes more sense for auxiliaries or frontier rough and ready peoples (i.e Bedouin ) to have them. Although technically they too would have probably had army formations made up of light cavalry and infantry archers.

I'm also an aesthete and like seeing all the different culture DLC units running around on the map. Lord knows I'm enough of a mug to buy them!
 

EmoPro

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How compatible is this with MTA Vice & Virtues mod? Both mods feature slavery...