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Barón Rojo

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Bringing an old debate but: Empire of the Romans is better than Byzantine Empire.
 

IoannesBarbarus

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Bringing an old debate but: Empire of the Romans is better than Byzantine Empire.
I disagree. It’s the traditional English name. But it can be modified at modules/SED2/localisation/A DuchiesKingdomsandEmpires de jure.csv, line 886.
 

theKing1988

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If we disregard accuracy in translation for a moment, the long standing dominant discourse in Anglo-Saxon and even in Continental Germanic Historical Science departments have been to name the Eastern Empire, Byzantine. I could riff for several pages on the problems with this and how it is questionable scientific work from the predecessors in my subject of study. But it is not just in popular culture that Byzantine is the dominant name of the Eastern Empire.

So i'm gonna have to agree with my IoannesBarbarus here. Yes, it would be a more accurate translation to name it "Empire of the Romans" but no, it would be a bad idea to use that as a localisation instead.

It would very much damage what he (IoannesBarbarus) is trying to do with the submod. To make culture names and title names easily and quickly identifiable for every single user in English
 
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Indeed, compromises must be made towards the goal of immediate comprehensibility. Either Byzantine Empire or Eastern Roman Empire are fine.
 

JohnMK

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Is there anything I can do to Anglicize some of the more exotic titles that I'm encountering in the Eastern Roman Empire? I'm a fan of comprehensible words such as Mayor, Baron, Count, and so on, and instead I see a bunch of terms so foreign to my lexicon that I'm incapable of memorizing them readily. Is there an easy way I can fix this myself in the files? I've come to accept Strategos and Dux, begrudgingly, but everything lower than that go. Actually, even Strategos could probably be re-labeled Viceroy-Duke. I'm sure that, in-turn, I'll be labeled a heretic, but we're already into heresy with this mod, right? :) Why not just a little farther. ;) Comprehensibility at a glance should be Goal #1. Maybe I might suggest that a second version of this mod be considered, a so-called Dumb Mode, that axes all culturally-specific titles below Emperor and/or King, so that for example, we keep Caliph and Khan maybe but axe Kyros or whatever the greek word for mayor/count is. I'd be willing to help with that, by the way.
 

theKing1988

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Wouldn't it be better to have some distinguishing features here and there? From Western Europe to Eastern Europe to North Africa to India etc.

I'm not telling you what to want from the sub-mod, or IoannesBarbarus in which direction to take the Sub-mod when it comes to noble titles, i'm just curious.

I did the Noble titles as you might know already so i'm curious which one of them irks you the most
 
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IoannesBarbarus

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Comprehensibility at a glance should be Goal #1.
This isn’t actually my main goal. Mainly I’m changing the localisation model from consistently native to consistently modern English, so that things are named the way you might find them in a history book today. I could have gone further with replacing some titles with rough equivalents. But a kephale (Greek city-type baron in SWMH) isn’t the same thing as a mayor. You could argue that kephale is an odd choice to consider equivalent to a Byzantine city-type baron… I wouldn’t know, really. That’s in the scope of SWMH, and I try to preserve a lot of that work in SED, just in a different form. When a title has a direct translation in English, I’ll translate it. (E.g. German Grafen are Counts)

That said, it’s actually not too tough to modify SED to do what you want. You need yourself a text editor that supports find-and-replace with regular expressions, like Notepad++. Then, open modules/SED2/localisation/A Nobletitles.csv, and replace-all ^((?!king|emp(eror|ire))[^#\n])*\n with the empty string. Delete the king| bit to remove king-tier titles also. (This has the effect of reverting the lower tiers to vanilla values.)
 

theKing1988

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This is the dictionary description from the Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium, that have been copied into a Wiki article, that Kephale is based on. Not that it should matter too much, seeing as IoannesBarbarus seem to have a clear vision on what he wants to do with SED

In essence, the kephalē replaced the Komnenian-era doux as the civil and military governor of a territorial administrative unit, known as a katepanikion (κατεπανίκιον),[2] but also termed a kephalatikion (κεφαλατίκιον). In size, these provinces were small compared to the earlier themata, and could range from a few villages surrounding the kephalē's seat (a kastron, "fortress"), to an entire island.[1]
 

JohnMK

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Thanks guys for your replies, I'll see what I can manage on my own! I do appreciate what you've already done, btw.
 

Isewein

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Thank you for this! SWMH's commitment to endonyms is a neat idea, but in some places simply anachronistic. "Heiliges Romisches Reich" and "Magyarorszag" pain my eyes. Now, if only we could have a Latin localisation mod for Europe...
 
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