[submod] Pagan Improvement Project

[NakedBeast]

VIET Immersion is dead for a reason.

We didn't pull the mod from our selection for fun-- the thing had degenerated into a crashing mess that was beyond revival to current HIP standards without, say, me dedicating myself to it, and I clearly have other stuff to do. Pulling out some of its content is fine, although still, it's so aged that much of its content has grown fairly incoherent with the actual game; it'd be a different story if we were still on patch 2.1, but we are not, and even things as innocuous as event text are going to be just plain wrong / inappropriate re: actual game state at this point without comprehensive rewrite.

Of course, I mean if you dedicated yourself to rewriting and including most of it's content it would be great. The more immersion the better.

 

[vyshan]

Regarding these, while Slava is certainly a continuation of household god celebrations, they are technically a Christian thing, despite the fact that we know, for example, that Svetovid was changed into Saint Vitus (i.e. Sveti Vid), Perun was absorbed into Saint Ilias, and the serpentine component of Veles was incorporated into Saint George. It would really end up being less of a Slavic pagan feast event and more a Serbian one.

I am making it a Serbian holiday, with two variations one for a Christian Feast of a saint, and the other a Pagan one should a Serbian realm remain Pagan.

Regarding badnjak, I haven't really heard that such a thing exists as a holiday - only as a plant which is burned on Christmas. In any case, it'd fit as part of the festival of Kolęda, a festival of the Winter Solstice, something widely practived among Slavs.

Yea, I noticed that as well after I wrote my list up. Wikipedia seemed to have Badnjak as a holiday so I thought it was one. My mistake on that. thanks for the help though

Of course, I mean if you dedicated yourself to rewriting and including most of it's content it would be great. The more immersion the better.

Which is how I am handling the VIET Immersion stuff that I been incorporating into the mod, such as the Griot stuff. I am not including everything only things that I well like, such as the Travel stuff.

 

[Rylock]

Of course, I mean if you dedicated yourself to rewriting and including most of it's content it would be great. The more immersion the better.

You know what's better than immersion? Stuff that works. Stuff that pays attention to gameplay, and is actually maintained.

Yes, I suppose if zijistark dedicated himself to rewriting and including it, it could be done. But why would he do that? Because immersion? Because someone thought those crappy, broken events were somehow superior to whatever he's currently working on just because it added...something? I don't mean to be sharp, but I'll never understand the nostalgia some folks hold out for abandoned mods all in the name of vague and all-encompassing "flavor".

If there are specific things that you think should be taken from VIET and put into the main mod, I'd suggest pointing them out individually - then zijistark and/or someone else from the team can decide if that's worth implementing (as in a new implementation - generally speaking, trying to "fix" outdated and broken events is more work that writing it anew). Otherwise, that's what things like this sub-mod are for: to concentrate on things some folks care about more than others.

 

[NakedBeast]

You know what's better than immersion? Stuff that works. Stuff that pays attention to gameplay, and is actually maintained.

Thanks for reply. Actually, my only assumptions about VIET come from viet sub-mode included into HIP. I like those events very much and I assume (might be wrong) that there could be 10 times more stuff like this that was in viet but wasn't included. Correct me if I'm wrong (pretty sure I'm wrong somewhat).

 

[2ndPorphyry]

Thanks for reply. Actually, my only assumptions about VIET come from viet sub-mode included into HIP. I like those events very much and I assume (might be wrong) that there could be 10 times more stuff like this that was in viet but wasn't included. Correct me if I'm wrong (pretty sure I'm wrong somewhat).

Other aspects of VIET stopped being included precisely for the reasons already stated: i.e. outdated, no longer maintained, and sometimes sloppy under the hood. When a mod isn't kept in development it quickly diverges and becomes broken. It'd be different if cybr hadn't retired and was still part of the team of course. Also, there's quite a bit of contention regarding the immersive qualities of VIET—some people don't like dick jokes, quirky court events, and typos.

 

[Grouchio]

What can you manually do in-game so that Christianity and Islam are weaker to pagan re-encroachment so that the world could return to the old gods? And speaking of of Old Gods, are you planning to include Celtic Druidism, Insular Christianity, Norse Christianity, Slavic Christianity, Baltic Christianity, Finnic Christianity, Sol Invictus, Neoplatonism/Platonic Christianity, Yazidism, Mandeanism, the various sects of Buddhism and split Berber Paganism from West African - in the future?

 

[SBolshevik]

Druidism was dead in 769, let alone 867.

 

[Harald Fairhair]

I can't hire any skalds as court skald. Is anyone experience the same problem?

 

[theStormWeaver]

Druidism was dead in 769, let alone 867.

There were Celtic Pagans reported on the island of St. Kilda in the 15th century. But there were like 200 of them in a tiny village living off sheep and fish. Whatever version of Celtic Paganism they were practicing was likely greatly removed from "actual" Celtic Paganism anyway.

 

[bontanel]

I love those kinds of mods! Everyone except the norse were kicked to the curb by Paradox and they need some uniqueness. Is the mod included in HIP(I know they included a heresy mod or something)? I'd love to help but I don't really know how to mod. All I could do is help you with research if you'd like me to.

 

[Erilaz]

About the skalds in the "Englisc" culture, I think it makes some sense. Especially since the Anglo-Saxon "scop" might have had a similar function, though it seems to've belonged to an earlier period. I would probably allow skalds in case of a heathen Englisc person/Anglo-Dane, and perhaps (though it would be unlikely) scops for a heathen Anglo-Saxon or alternatively allow scops until a set year (some event declaring the decline of that tradition).

I would probably also limit the skalds in the later Scandinavian cultures, but that may prove tricky. (In my own mod, provided I port it to a newer version, I would solve it by only allowing it for the Norræn culture, so as to keep it up until the 11th century for Scandinavia proper and virtually indefinitely for Iceland, but that would not work using base HIP).


I'll be following the development here, and make sure it works with NHO when I port it.

 

[Grouchio]

Will there be an attempt to add/diversify pagan religions in the next version? Like per-say Berber from West African? Ethiopian polytheism from Paganism?

 

[Lowcast]

Will there be an attempt to add/diversify pagan religions in the next version? Like per-say Berber from West African? Ethiopian polytheism from Paganism?

I think he said he wasn't going to add new religions, just expand on ones that already exist. You should use Ancient Religions Reborn if you want new ones.

And the problem with diversifying pagan religions is where should you stop? Slavs shared a lot of common deities and practices but also had very significant regional differences. Saxons and Norsemen both had very different interpretations of Germanic paganism. Finnish people almost certainly didn't believe in the same things as Samis or Mordvins.

I'd rather see blanket religions with a lot more content than dozens of religions with sparser content.

 

[Grouchio]

Isn't Ancient Religions Reborn incompatible with HIP?

 

[zijistark]

Isn't Ancient Religions Reborn incompatible with HIP?

Yes, incompatible.

 

[theStormWeaver]

Isn't Ancient Religions Reborn incompatible with HIP?

For now. I don't have plans to expand beyond my three current religions (and their heresies) for quite some time, if ever. So, you won't find a Berber paganism in ACR either.