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vyshan

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Kemetic Paganism had long since been wholly replaced with the Coptic Church. I doubt there are enough people in-game to add a whole new religion. My understanding of this submod is the aim is to add depth to existing pagan religions, not add anachronistic new religions.

Correct. The focus of the Mod is on the pagan faiths of the medieval era. Kemeticism and even Hellenismos were saddly gone by this point in history. So they won't be in this sub-mod.

Anyways here is what I want to have included for 0.2, which should be much more then 0.1, not sure when this will be out, but hopefully soon. I would like the weekend, but time will tell :)

- Poetry Mechanics: This is something from VIET Immersion. How this works is each year, if you don't have a skald/griot/Bard, you will lose some prestige and be informed that well you don't have them/ Thankfully you do have a decision to hire a skald or griot, you would need to give them the minor title of court Griot/Skald/Bard. They have their own trait to reflect that they weren't just poets but had a social standing in society as members of a certain class.

Having a Griot and Skald will open up new events for you, notably the ability to hold performances(which have some to increase your prestige. Also for skalds and tbh all norse minor titles save court Volva have been opened up to those who are of the North Germanic culture group and the Norse-Gaels. So non-pagan north Germanic/Norse-Gaelic realms can have people be Lawspeakers, drottseti, marksman and hirdman. As it seems like they were still in use even after conversion(particularly skalds) So now, you can be a christian kingdom and have a court skald, ie your own Snorri.

Griots can be used by anyone who is of the west african culture group or a west-african pagan. So the Sunni kings of Mali can also have them.

For Bards, they will have different minor titles depending on culture. For the Irish there are two titles. if you are the King of Ireland, then you can grant the title of Ollamh Érenn, otherwise you just can appoint an Ollamh. For the rest of the celtic group atm they just have the title of Court Bard(looking for more cultural apporprait names). They all will use the same trait of bard

ATM for 0.2 I am aiming for these poetry stuff for the West Africans, Norse and Celts

- Mystic Events: another thing from VIET Immersion. Like with the poets above, you will be prompted each year to have a Volva or shaman, not having them is again bad losing a bit of piety and prestige. Like with the skalds/griots you get a decision to hire them. However it does offer up more events for you, particularly the ask the gods/spirits/ancestors for advice tree where your mystic does mystic stuff and gives you advice relating to family, realm or personal matters. What sort of advice is a bit random, the outcome less so; ie having a good mystic is good. They have their own trait to reflect their standing in society.

For the Finnish-Uralic, West African and Tengrist however, you will need a shaman to be your court Chaplin. So making sure you have a shaman is doubly important for them. Norse don't have that restriction, but they will want a volva holding the title of Court Volva.

- Educating new Mystics and Poets: Since it is important for you to have the above positions filled in your court, you can make sure that your sons or daughters can be trained properly to have on of the positions. Sometimes you will have children ask to become them. as an example if you have a pious daughter as a Norse pagan, she might ask you if she can train and become a Volva. Your court mystic may also at times ask to train someone in your family.

Now you don't have to agree to it, you are given the chance of saying no; particularly if you have plans for the children that seek to become mystics, as the mystics can not inherit; they are to give up family ties to serve the Ancestors, Gods and Spirits. On the other hand, it will help you with succession.

For skalds and other poets, they can still inherit; though it is less likely for royal families to have children become skalds and much more likely for patricians. Your court Skald/Griot will still need to not be a ruler though.

-More events: And there will be some more events, mostly related to having a mystic and a skald atm.
 
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Perhaps with Norse skalds, you could add a little cultural modifier since skalds could convey stories, tales and rumors of the outside world to their patrons. Maybe encourage them to sing or compose songs/poems/tales that glorified their ancestry/family bloodline with the Tale of Ragnar's Sons (Ragnarssona þáttr) being a good example.
 

evan1119

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Correct. The focus of the Mod is on the pagan faiths of the medieval era. Kemeticism and even Hellenismos were saddly gone by this point in history. So they won't be in this sub-mod.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Hellenistic paganism survive in Thrace during the early medieval era. I was under the impression that rural paganism in Greece wasn't completely wiped out until after the collapse of the Byzantinw empire.

Might not be substantial enough to be represented in game even if I'm correct however
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Hellenistic paganism survive in Thrace during the early medieval era. I was under the impression that rural paganism in Greece wasn't completely wiped out until after the collapse of the Byzantinw empire.

Might not be substantial enough to be represented in game even if I'm correct however

There is a difference between religion, folklore, and superstition. Its like arguing medieval witchcraft was a formalized craft in the manner of modern Wicca. It doesn't hold water. (and we all know witches are made of wood and float)
 

theKing1988

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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Hellenistic paganism survive in Thrace during the early medieval era. I was under the impression that rural paganism in Greece wasn't completely wiped out until after the collapse of the Byzantinw empire.

Might not be substantial enough to be represented in game even if I'm correct however

I think you're confusing the Pagans of the tiny Mani peninsula in the Peloponnese with Thrace. Greater concentration of Hellenic Pagans in central areas of the Eastern Empire, like Thrace, Macedonia, Central Anatolia etc. had more or less vanished by year 600, obviously well before the earliest startdate in HIP
 
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There is a difference between religion, folklore, and superstition. Its like arguing medieval witchcraft was a formalized craft in the manner of modern Wicca. It doesn't hold water. (and we all know witches are made of wood and float)
This about nails it, insofar as "religion" generally indicates organization. And even if one were to grant the existence of rural paganism, the fact remains that it was never confessed by a figure of political power, which are the people whom CK2 is concerned with. (Occasional and politically motivated claims in chronicles of "crypto-paganism" ignored.) It's important to remember that even "lowborns" in the game are representing people of some wealth, influence, and education/higher culture, not the vast masses peasantry; and that this demographic thoroughly held to Christianity throughout the period.
 
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evan1119

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I think you're confusing the Pagans of the tiny Mani peninsula in the Peloponnese with Thrace. Greater concentration of Hellenic Pagans in central areas of the Eastern Empire, like Thrace, Macedonia, Central Anatolia etc. had more or less vanished by year 600, obviously well before the earliest startdate in HIP

I am. Thanks for the correction. Meant Peloponnesia; not Thrace. Sorry my Greek geology is a bit rough. In the words of Donald Trump I had only "heard" that there remained pagan communities in Greece and never professed to know it for any certainty.

Hence prefacing my post with "Correct me if I'm wrong" and "under the impression".
 
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vyshan

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And Version 0.2 is now out. :)

Feel free to provide any feedback you may have and if you find any bugs or any issues, don't hesitate to let me know. :)

Change log
- Added bear hunts for Finnish Pagans
- Added Haltija and Haltija Sacrfices for Finnish Pagans
- Added Griots and Griot Events for West Africans, both culturally and religiously
- Added Skalds and Skaldic events for Norse as well as for North Germanic cultures and Norse-Gaelic Culture
- Added Volvas and Volva events for Norse Pagans
- Added Shamans and Shaman events for Tengri, West Africans and Finnish Pagans
- Changed it so that Tengri, West Africans, and Finnish Pagan court Chaplins have to be a shaman.
 
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vyshan

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What about the englisc? Should they not have skalds?

I don't think the English or the Englisc really had a tradition of Skalds or something similar like they did in either the celtic parts of the British Isles or the Norse. That said, when I get to looking at western europe, I proably will adapt the skaldic stuff for Troubadors. Of course I want to do some more focusing on the pagan stuff first. :)

Anyways next update will primarily be based around festivals. I also aim to be be adding the Travel events that VIET Immersion had back in for everyone. Anyways here is what I am thinking on in regards to festivals, let me know what others think :)

Slavic
  • Dziady
  • Kupala Night
  • Slava(Serbian)
  • Badnjak(serbian)
  • Dożynki
  • Maslenitsa
  • Green week
Baltic
  • Ilgės
  • Rasos
Norse
  • Yule
  • Dísablót
  • Álfablót
  • Sigrblót
Finnish-Uralic
This is where I shall need some help. As I am not sure about any other festivals beyond the Ukon Juhla festival.
 
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When will this be inclluded with the other HIP Modules ?. Or it already inclluded ?

Whenever the team feels like they wish to add it. I am prefectly content with the HIP teaming adding it to the main mod :)

Anyways, what do others think of the mod so far? have their been any issues or bugs? Also feel free to give suggestions, particularly if you have any Baltic or Slavic suggestions.
 

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I really like every bit of VIET Immersion revivalism, but I would like it even more if there was Vanilla Map Version for guys like me who don't use SWMH. :)
 
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SBolshevik

Something Something Aŋrômainiiuš
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  • Slava(Serbian)
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Regarding these, while Slava is certainly a continuation of household god celebrations, they are technically a Christian thing, despite the fact that we know, for example, that Svetovid was changed into Saint Vitus (i.e. Sveti Vid), Perun was absorbed into Saint Ilias, and the serpentine component of Veles was incorporated into Saint George. It would really end up being less of a Slavic pagan feast event and more a Serbian one. Regarding badnjak, I haven't really heard that such a thing exists as a holiday - only as a plant which is burned on Christmas. In any case, it'd fit as part of the festival of Kolęda, a festival of the Winter Solstice, something widely practived among Slavs.
 

zijistark

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Viet is the best thing ever. It would be a wonder if it would be included more as an installable module.
VIET Immersion is dead for a reason.

We didn't pull the mod from our selection for fun-- the thing had degenerated into a crashing mess that was beyond revival to current HIP standards without, say, me dedicating myself to it, and I clearly have other stuff to do. Pulling out some of its content is fine, although still, it's so aged that much of its content has grown fairly incoherent with the actual game; it'd be a different story if we were still on patch 2.1, but we are not, and even things as innocuous as event text are going to be just plain wrong / inappropriate re: actual game state at this point without comprehensive rewrite.
 
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