[Submod] Norse Heritage Overhaul - and other tweaks for HIP (Updated: 22 July 2020)

[Submod] Norse Heritage Overhaul - and other tweaks for HIP (Updated: 22 July 2020)

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lucasNake

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I just started a quick Denmark game and as it seems the combination of NHO and HIP more cultural names submod causes far more issues than we thought. Most of the duchies-counties touched by NHO are duplicated.
For example: Duchy of Holstein has duplicate Rendsburg counties.

Also, how come HIP includes Danish/Norse, Swedish job titles and NHO has none for them?
Sorry for replying to an old post, but could you tell which map mod are you using?
 
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killtor

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Would be nice if Norse rulers ruling Breton, Cornish and Welsh territories would not convert themselves and said territories to Gall Goidel/Norse-Gaelic, but instead something a bit more appropriate. Possibly Cumbric as well, though proximity to actual Gaelic culture makes it more reasonable.
 
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Erilaz

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Would be nice if Norse rulers ruling Breton, Cornish and Welsh territories would not convert themselves and said territories to Gall Goidel/Norse-Gaelic, but instead something a bit more appropriate. Possibly Cumbric as well, though proximity to actual Gaelic culture makes it more reasonable.
You're absolutely right. I see it as "acceptable" since the rulers living in these Brittonic areas would generally be dominated either by Anglo-Norse or Hiberno-Norse culture historically. There's already several events for provinces, converting them to more appropriate melting pot cultures (Gall-Goídel in Brittany will quickly convert to Norman if bordering a do. province; Gall-Goídel provinces in Wales will quickly convert to Anglo-Norse if bordering an Anglo-Norse province - both of them with several other checks to ensure it makes more sense).

The whole Gall-Goídel melting pot is actually in need of a more or less complete rewrite, and limiting it to actual Irish/Scottish areas would be a part of that I'm thinking...
 
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Erilaz

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Would you have Call to Arms for HIP Hydra6? Which is for CK2 2.8.3.4
Uhh.. That is a very old version, but yes, I found it on my backup drive.
 

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ogarrr

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This is a massive nitpick, but whilst I approve of a lot of the renaming done in the cultural files (the Norman Willelme instead of William) you have renamed Odo as Eude under the Norman culture. The Bayeux Tapestry, commissioned by Bishop Odo himself, clearly shows that Odo was used rather than the more Frankish Eudes.

It does this multiple times, where he's sat next to his brothers labelled "Willelm" and "Rotbert" but also later during the battle: "Hic Odo Eps baculu tenens confortat pueros"
Here Bishop Odo, holding a club, inspires the troops
Both have him labelled as "Odo Eps" or "Bishop Odo" but both use the Odo form rather than the Eude used in the mod.

Edit: Otherwise, top updates yet again.
 

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Erilaz

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I believe what we're seeing in the Bayeux Tapestry is the Latin version of the name being preferred if available, Willelm(us) and Rotbert(us) also working in Latin (see the full text here) so you'd have "Odo Episcopus" while in my source it is either "Eude(s)" or "Ode(s)" in the Norman Old French dialects. I have both versions in my naming list. I just checked and I gave Odo of Bayeux the "Ode" variant.
 
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Erilaz

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Here's an update I probably should've released a while ago, including the hotfix for the Russian melting pot and some other changes/additions. Just been busy with other stuff, so never got around to uploading it and updating the thread.

CHANGELOG:

Main Part:
- New province and holding localisation for the Wendish/Pommeranian culture, again thanks to @ShinsukeNakamura.
- Fixed an issue that triggered the Christian Russian melting pot event for provinces that were already converted to the late Russian culture.
- Gilla-Brigte of Galloway and his sons now retain Gall-Goídel culture a bit longer, and have some traits added. Uhtred blinded, castrated and killed by his brother, etc.
- Donald mac William and his father have claims on the Scottish kingdom.
No Early Bascinets or Great Helms:
- Minor alterations and corrections.




NHO Compilation (10-06-20)

Includes all NHO parts and all tweaks except Call to Arms, No Early Bascinets or Great Helms, and Proper Ruler Designer.

For HIP Frosty2 (EMF and SWMH required) NOTE: Unfortunately doesn't support MiniSWMH anymore.


NHO Main Part

Features:
  • Reworked Norse culture split, including four brand new cultures in Scandinavia and a completely overhauled language setup. See here for details.
  • Overhauled Norse and Norse-derived (including melting pot) character and dynasty names as well as noble and landed title localisation.
  • New or tweaked names and localisation for neighbouring cultures (Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Balto-Slavic, and Finno-Ugric), including an effort to replace all remaining "High Chiefs".
  • A "Scots" melting-pot that will appear in the Scottish lowlands in the 11th century (around the time of Malcolm III whose descendants are of this anglophile culture along with the Scoto-Norman nobility).
  • Revision of the Rus setup, with two new cultures and melting pot events for early and late Rus, a new Polotsk cadet branch of the Rurikids, revised succession laws for Kiev, fixes to the Novgorod Republic, corrections to the surrounding culture setup, and a split of the Mordvin culture into Erzya and Moksha, etc.
  • Changes and corrections to the title and character setup in and around the Scandinavian kingdoms.
  • Tweaked Norse-Gaelic and Anglo-Danish melting-pots.
  • Slightly lowered taxes and levies of North Sea and Baltic Merchant Republics.
  • Other minor changes that enhance the experience when playing within the Norse sphere of influence (see the changelog).
Requirements:
HIP Frosty2 (EMF and SWMH required)

Download:
Direct
(10-06-20)



No Early Bascinets or Great Helms

Features:

No longer will you see Harald Hardrada wearing a 13th century great helm. Disables bascinets before 1300, great helms before 1225 (for Crusaders 1200), enclosed helmets before 1175, flat top and kettle hats before 1125. The distribution of high martial gear based on martial skill etc. has also been tweaked slightly to accommodate the more fractured emergence of the helmet types - and for a nice transition between them.

Requirements:
HIP Frosty2 (CPRplus required)

Download:
Direct
(10-06-20) NOTE: Not included in the compilation.
 
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ogarrr

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I believe what we're seeing in the Bayeux Tapestry is the Latin version of the name being preferred if available, Willelm(us) and Rotbert(us) also working in Latin (see the full text here) so you'd have "Odo Episcopus" while in my source it is either "Eude(s)" or "Ode(s)" in the Norman Old French dialects. I have both versions in my naming list. I just checked and I gave Odo of Bayeux the "Ode" variant.
Can't argue with that, my Latin is pretty rusty and I only got a C at GCSE so it was never any good anyway.
 

Erilaz

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Can't argue with that, my Latin is pretty rusty and I only got a C at GCSE so it was never any good anyway.
:D
youtu.be/7_ssRpso9e8?t=2668 (timestamped)

(this forum's functionality has really gone down hill btw...)
 
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Erilaz

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I'll see if I can manage to update everything (including Expanded Trade) this week.


These tweaks are still compatible with the newest version of HIP (Frosty3):

Abandon Undesirable Children

Keep Betrothed Family Members Home

Latin and Greek Religious Titles


No Early Bascinets or Great Helms

No Warrior Lodges

Very Rare Female Peasant Leaders


No Randomly Generated Daughters
is obsolete since EMF has included a rule that allows you to disable it (set it to "off"). I recommend you use that.
 

Delnar_Ersike

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No Randomly Generated Daughters is obsolete since EMF has included a rule that allows you to disable it (set it to "off"). I recommend you use that.
Just an extra note that previous versions' propensity for generating daughters is more similar to the Aggressive setting of History's Forgotten Women. The Default setting is very conservative when it comes to generating daughters: essentially, if a character has had at least two kids already, they're unlikely to generate any daughters even if they're older than 35, and they will never generate daughters if they already have had three kids, and they also won't ever generate daughters if they don't have a spouse. You'd basically need to be a married person in their 30's (with a spouse also in their 30's) with no kids in order to generate a daughter or two. Wife generation is also very conservative: you have to be unmarried and have a non-Bastard child who has no recorded mother in order to have a wife generated for you.

I wouldn't reflexively turn off History's Forgotten Women completely, is what I'm saying. If you try out the default setting and it definitely still breaks your immersion, then go ahead, but don't assume you won't like it just because you didn't like how daughters were generated in previous versions.
 
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Erilaz

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Just an extra note that previous versions' propensity for generating daughters is more similar to the Aggressive setting of History's Forgotten Women. The Default setting is very conservative when it comes to generating daughters: essentially, if a character has had at least two kids already, they're unlikely to generate any daughters even if they're older than 35, and they will never generate daughters if they already have had three kids, and they also won't ever generate daughters if they don't have a spouse. You'd basically need to be a married person in their 30's (with a spouse also in their 30's) with no kids in order to generate a daughter or two. Wife generation is also very conservative: you have to be unmarried and have a non-Bastard child who has no recorded mother in order to have a wife generated for you.

I wouldn't reflexively turn off History's Forgotten Women completely, is what I'm saying. If you try out the default setting and it definitely still breaks your immersion, then go ahead, but don't assume you won't like it just because you didn't like how daughters were generated in previous versions.
Fair enough. Definitely sounds better. I will personally turn it off though since I think the increased risk of historical inaccuracies isn't worth the benefits (possibility for starting date alliances, and what else?)
 

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Fair enough. Definitely sounds better. I will personally turn it off though since I think the increased risk of historical inaccuracies isn't worth the benefits (possibility for starting date alliances, and what else?)
At the Default setting, alliances less so, because the AI doesn't tend to marry for alliances very often, and comparatively few daughters are generated, so the chances of a new alliance happening purely because of a generated daughter is slim. Additionally, because a lot of wives are generated for characters who should have one but don't, you may potentially get fewer alliances.

What is significantly more likely though is AI dynastic stability in the earlygame: especially in 867, a lot more AIs start married (seriously, even with those very conservative settings, you will easily get 100+ generated wives, there are just that many entries where PDS didn't bother to put in a mother when both the child and the father have history entries) and are therefore more likely to have another child faster. This makes it less likely that they will die out after one or two generations. The starting pool of available women for AI marriages is also greatly increased, primarily because the demand for women is significantly lower when a lot more of the AI start married. The daughters add a tiny bit to that pool, but really, it's the generated wives doing most of the heavy lifting. Additionally, in places that start with Ag-Cog succession, an extra daughter or two for a nobody Count or Baron can successfully keep titles out of the hands of a bigger AI player, since rather than the title(s) reverting to the big AI player when the male ruler dies without any children who are alive (much more likely when they barely have any children as an older person, which is exactly when the daughter generation would kick in), it will instead get passed on to their daughter, who is then much more of a wild regard regarding who she will end up "giving" the title to through a marriage.

Then there's also the Gavelkind factor. In a lot of early starts, Gavelkind is way less of a catalyst for chaos in realms without extensive character histories because the characters there just don't tend to end up with a lot of children when they die. With wives being auto-generated for these characters when they definitely should have wives, their average number of children increase quite a bit, which makes it more likely that Gavelkind will start doing its work from the very first generation.
 
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Erilaz

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So, here's the update:


CHANGELOG:
22-07-20
Main Part:

- Updated for Frosty3.
Icelandic Republic:
- Updated for Frosty3.
Map Changes:
- Updated for Frosty3.
Call to Arms:
- Updated for Frosty3.
Passive Finno-Ugric Pagans:
- Updated for Frosty3.
Proper Ruler Designer:
- Updated for Frosty3.
The Articles of the Barons:
- Updated for Frosty3.





NHO Compilation (22-07-20)

Includes all NHO parts and all tweaks except Call to Arms, No Early Bascinets or Great Helms, and Proper Ruler Designer.

For HIP Frosty3 (EMF and SWMH required) NOTE: Unfortunately doesn't support MiniSWMH anymore.

NHO Main Part

Features:
  • Reworked Norse culture split, including four brand new cultures in Scandinavia and a completely overhauled language setup. See here for details.
  • Overhauled Norse and Norse-derived (including melting pot) character and dynasty names as well as noble and landed title localisation.
  • New or tweaked names and localisation for neighbouring cultures (Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Balto-Slavic, and Finno-Ugric), including an effort to replace all remaining "High Chiefs".
  • A "Scots" melting-pot that will appear in the Scottish lowlands in the 11th century (around the time of Malcolm III whose descendants are of this anglophile culture along with the Scoto-Norman nobility).
  • Revision of the Rus setup, with two new cultures and melting pot events for early and late Rus, a new Polotsk cadet branch of the Rurikids, revised succession laws for Kiev, fixes to the Novgorod Republic, corrections to the surrounding culture setup, and a split of the Mordvin culture into Erzya and Moksha, etc.
  • Changes and corrections to the title and character setup in and around the Scandinavian kingdoms.
  • Tweaked Norse-Gaelic and Anglo-Danish melting-pots.
  • Slightly lowered taxes and levies of North Sea and Baltic Merchant Republics.
  • Other minor changes that enhance the experience when playing within the Norse sphere of influence (see the changelog).
Requirements:
HIP Frosty3 (EMF and SWMH required)

Download:
Direct (22-07-20)



NHO Icelandic Republic

Features:
  • Iceland as a republic with all the lawspeakers, important chieftains, and major clans of the age, several saga figures, and a complete line of Bishops for both of the Icelandic dioceses.
  • Important families of the Faeroe Islands around the time of conversion to Christianity and an extra holding to make the struggles for/against conversion and integration into the Norwegian Kingdom more interesting; this holding later being replaced by the diocese of the Islands.
  • Unreformed pagans can use the "convert to merchant republic" decision (when all other requirements are met).
  • Added modifiers to portray the pre-colonisation (no levies), the Landnám, and the climate (these will also further limit the amount of gold earned by the Icelandic MR government).
Requirements:
HIP Frosty3 (SWMH and EMF required), NHO Main Part

Download:
Direct (22-07-20)



NHO Map Changes

Features:
  • Redrawn borders that give York and London access to the sea.
  • Opened up several passes through the Norwegian mountain terrain.
Requirements:
HIP Frosty3 (SWMH required)

Download:
Direct (22-07-20)



Proper Ruler Designer

Features:
Brings back the +/- of the Ruler Designer to stop yourself and your friends from overindulging.

Requirements:
HIP Frosty3 (EMF required)

Download:
Direct (22-07-20) NOTE: Not included in the compilation.



Call to Arms

Features:
Any independent ruler, with at least one higher than baron tier vassal, that becomes primary participant in a war will have to call vassals to arms, but when at peace or a secondary participant only, the ruler will get the possibility to raise liege levies once more
NOTE:
- I've created this with inspiration, and some base code, from this mod.
- Many triggers for factions and decisions modified to take into account the drop in perceived power when no longer having liege levies.
- Taxing your feudal vassals lowers their opinion of you. This counters the inclination of players to focus on taxes (AI will always keep high levy focus by default).
- Modifiers that alter feudal liege levy percentages (e.g. imperial decay and levy efficiency) also give negative/positive opinion to your feudal vassals.
- I've made new government types for all baron-tier feudal vassals to make sure only vassals that can actually raise their own troops will be called.
- Be aware that this feature is very much experimental and will change your experience significantly.

DISCLAIMER: Due to the fundamental changes to balance etc. the HIP developers will not help you troubleshoot your game if you use this tweak.

Requirements:
HIP Frosty3 (EMF required)

Download:
Direct (22-07-20) NOTE: Not included in the compilation.



The Articles of the Barons

Features:
Removes the baron-tier border gore reduction. See here for details.

Requirements:
HIP Frosty3 (EMF required)

Download:
Direct (22-07-20)



Passive Finno-Ugric Pagans

Features:
Unreformed Finno-Ugric pagans will not start wars of conquest. They will stay passive except for revolts, raids, and defence of other realms of the same faith. Baltic and Slavic pagans have also been made slightly less aggressive.

Requirements:
HIP Frosty3 (EMF required)

Download:
Direct (22-07-20)
 

VYNLT

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What part of the compilation doesn't support MiniSWMH anymore? I'm assuming the map changes module, but just making sure since i'm using MiniSWMH currently.
 

Herr Doctor

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Have you considered something like Cultural Bonus mod but more adopted to your mod concept and melting pots?
 

Erilaz

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What part of the compilation doesn't support MiniSWMH anymore? I'm assuming the map changes module, but just making sure since i'm using MiniSWMH currently.
Actually the conflicting part is the main one, because it's related to the landed titles file. You will see, if you try to use it, that the otherwise disabled provinces in India are filled with random characters.

I tried to solve this by making submod-specific landed titles files, but in the end I was forced to keep overwriting the main SWMH one (because of some arbitrary limitations).


Have you considered something like Cultural Bonus mod but more adopted to your mod concept and melting pots?
I honestly don't see the appeal. It's not like cultures magically give you new abilities. Only if it was well founded in some particular tradition would I change something (similar to the searaiding ability and such) - not some arbitrary increase in fort level or base tax...

If you have such suggestions though, I wouldn't mind hearing them.