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Guys, I need your advice. Do you guys think that China should have navigable rivers just like Europe does? I'm personally torn on the issue.
Pros:
- Chang Jiang was a major route for riverine fleets during the period. Gao Jixing of Jingnan attacked Later Shu controlled Kuizhou (around Three Gordes Dam)
- It is consistent with how most other major rivers are treated in the game.
Cons:
- No warfare means that players and AI can load troops and potentially move them deep into enemy territory unimpeded, which wasn't the case.
- Riverine warfare in China was mostly an extension of land warfare. Naval battles were fought primarily to allow/block river crossing for land armies. This likewise cannot be represented.
How about seperate Yangtze river into 3 major navigable sections, so neighbor countries within same channel is able to ship, but not able to crossover.
(Configured in adjacencies.csv)
The breaking point can base on de jure kingdom or real terrain. Or just not having breaking pixel, I did that for easier demonstration only.
The city model on map can be nudged to proper place to cover breaking point, if this makes map looking better.
More, by applying a "north_chinese_group_culture_modifier" with "galleys = -1000". AI is less likely wandering by river since they have few ship.
And make some galley merc like "Lake Tai Gang", that would be cool.
How about seperate Yangtze river into 3 major navigable sections, so neighbor countries within same channel is able to ship, but not able to crossover.
This is actually an excellent suggestion. Though instead of making them navigable rivers, a better solution would be to have them set up as sea-tiles instead and have the provinces have operable ports.
Warial, do you have some sneak-peak of the current world map and china in its extended state that is alread showable? I feel the need to build up some hype
A great-grandson of Yun (筠), grandson of Zheng (正), son of Yuanfeng (元豐). King's family name is Ma (馬), personal name Yin (殷). King of Chu (楚國王), Jiedushi of Wu'an (武安), Wuchang (武昌), Jingjiang (靜江) and Ningyuan (寧遠) armies. Born at Yanling (鄢陵 ) in Xuzhou (許州) along with two younger brothers, Cong (賨) and Cun (存), he enlisted into the army to became an officer at Xuanwu army (宣武) and at some point was delegated to Shangcai (上蔡) to serve under the command of a prefect (刺史) Qin Zongquan (秦宗權).
The King remained a commander under Qin Zongquan until 887 when Zongquan ordered his brother Qin Zongheng (秦宗衡) and his general Sun Ru (孫儒) to strike east at Huai'nan Circuit. King Wumu follwed Sun Ru when he murder Zongheng, took over the control over the army and redeclared allegiance to Tang dynasty.
5 years later Sun Ru tried to destroy his strongest rival in the region, Yang Xingmi (楊行密), then Jiedushi of Ningguo (寧國軍節度使). Amassing strong army he strived to deal a decisive blow to Yang, but he underestimated the opponent and died of malaria during along siege of Xuanzhou (宣州), after losing multiple battles and having all prefectures under command taken over by Yang's generals. King Wumu was then leading a detachment gathering resources for the army along with Liu Jianfeng (劉建鋒) and Zhang Ji (張佶). Hearing of Sun Ru's death they gathered their forces and the remnants of Sun Ru's army and moved west, towards Jiangxi.
Liu Jianfeng was elected as the leader of the army, while King Wumu became his second in command. They opted to bypass Jiangxi and move even further west to Changsha (長沙), the capital of Tanzhou prefecture (潭州) and the seat of the Jiedushi of Wu'an army (武安軍節度使). Then at the post was Deng Chuna (鄧處訥), a former prefect of (邵州) who mutinied and conquered the circuit. Jianfeng's forces defeated him in battle and took over the circuit. His rule was short, as after 2 years of leading depraved hedonist lifestyle, he set eyes on the beuatiful wife of general Chan Zhan (陳贍). Chen unable to contain his wrath after she became Jianfeng's lover, he murdered him in cold blood. King Wumu was then selected by the army to take over the command of the circuit. At that point only Tanzhou, as other prefectures were in the hand of independent prefects: Jiang Xun (蔣勳 at Shaozhou), Cai Jie (蔡結) at Daozhou (道州), Yang Shiyuan (楊師遠) at Hengzhou (衡州), Tang Shimin (唐世旻) at Yongzhou (永州), Chen Yanqian (陳彥謙) at Chenzhou (郴州) and Lu Jingren (魯景仁) at Lianzhou (連州).
Sending his great generals Zhang Ji, Li Qiong (李瓊), Li Tang (李唐) and Qin Yanhui (秦彥暉) to resume control over the entirety of the circuit. Concluding that by the end of 899, King Wumu was offcially granted the post of Jiedushi by Emperor Zhaozong. Next year after tensions erupted with the neighbouring Jingjiang Jiedushi Liu Shizheng (劉士政), Li Qiong promptly led an expedition to crush the enemy and in November of 900 surrendered his territories after a quick siege. King Wumu at this point held control over two cricuit and 12 prefectures in total.
In 907.6.8, a week after Emperor Ai of Tang yelded the throne, Zhu Huang (朱晃) enfeoffed King Wumu as Prince of Chu (楚王). In 908 under Imperial orders he struck and took Langzhou (朗州) from Lei Yangong (雷彥恭) expanding his demense to encompass Wuzhen (武貞). The same year Li Qiong recovered 6 prefectures belonging to Jingjiang circuit, but which were taken over by Liu Yin (劉隱), Jiedushi of Qinghai (清海軍節度使).
Over the next years King Wumu build a prosperous realm. On one hand he didn't stop feuding with his neighbours and struct both Jingnan to the west and Wu to the east. At the same time he wisely pursued marriage alliances with Wuyue and Southern Han which kept his realm from being encircled by enemies. He also kept nominal vassalage to first Liang and later Tang Empires for which he was allowed to enrich his state through trade with the Central Plain and was finally enfeoffed as King of Chu (楚國王) in 927.7.18. Stricking balance between warfare and diplomacy he build a foundation for a proseprous state, which would be nontheless destroyed by infighting of his ambitious sons after his death in 930.12.2
I'm mostly done redrawing the map. China, Vietnam are in with coasts, rivers, provinces redrawn. Currently I'm doing rivers in Mongolia and then I'll do Korean provinces and coasts. As for title history work, as visible on screenshot I still have to do Wuyue and half of Southern Han. Also Manchuria is untouched, but that shouldn't take too much time due to paucity of sources.
Warial, do you have some sneak-peak of the current world map and china in its extended state that is alread showable? I feel the need to build up some hype
Greetings,
-Historically, Yellow River diversion happens many many times, its water drainage system is basically dynamic. But CK2 is using static map.
So what is the river map based on? pre-1128, post-1128, modern or mixed?
-Following first question, will other major rivers, for instance Yellow River and Huai River, set up as sea-tiles, sharing features like Yangtze River?
-Is northern Luzon and Liukiu playable or simply impassible lands?
Historically, Yellow River diversion happens many many times, its water drainage system is basically dynamic. But CK2 is using static map.
So what is the river map based on? pre-1128, post-1128, modern or mixed?
It's a good question. Major battles were fought between Later Liang and Jin when the latter was trying to cross the Huang He, while Huai for a long time formed a border of Southern Wu and later Southern Tang. We will see.
Trade routes and army movement is broken. Moving my army from Gilan to Muqan teleports them into the indian ocean. Also all provinces in India seem to be broken in the same way. I am playing with the latest smwh and 五代通志 updates.
Trade routes and army movement is broken. Moving my army from Gilan to Muqan teleports them into the indian ocean. Also all provinces in India seem to be broken in the same way. I am playing with the latest smwh and 五代通志 updates.
Guys, I need your advice. Do you guys think that China should have navigable rivers just like Europe does? I'm personally torn on the issue.
Pros:
- Chang Jiang was a major route for riverine fleets during the period. Gao Jixing of Jingnan attacked Later Shu controlled Kuizhou (around Three Gordes Dam)
- It is consistent with how most other major rivers are treated in the game.
Cons:
- No warfare means that players and AI can load troops and potentially move them deep into enemy territory unimpeded, which wasn't the case.
- Riverine warfare in China was mostly an extension of land warfare. Naval battles were fought primarily to allow/block river crossing for land armies. This likewise cannot be represented.
I think it should be,If Ck2 have naval battles it will be better.Even that it also should have navigable rivers due to so many campaign in ancient china rely on naval to transport soldiers ,supply,and support land battle.
I'm curious that if it possible to simulate river transport 漕运 and Yellow River flood(natural and man made).I also want to know that when will the version with huge china map release
I'm curious that if it possible to simulate river transport 漕运 and Yellow River flood(natural and man made).I also want to know that when will the version with huge china map release
Grain transport most likely won't. It's an economic feature for a game where economy is pretty much nonexistent. I have no idea how to represent it in any meaningful way without something akin to the food production and supply system of M&T. That's not a feature to add for a China mod, but a general economy mod, which I'm not planning to do.
As for floods, that's possible. The biggest problem with man made floods is teaching AI when to do it. We will see. If someone wants to try to code it on their own, then feel free.
As for the release date, 3 days ago I spent lot's of effort on redrawing Korean coastlines only to accidentally overwrite it with an old version. 2 days ago I finished history work for 岭南西道节度使, only to accidentally delete it yesterday...
So, my plan is:
On weekend redo Lingnanxi Jiedushi and as many of Annan Jiedushi as I can. Hopefully next week I'll be able to work on Wuyue, which is gonna take no more than a week (but it's hard to say, might end up longer). After I'm done with Annan and Wuyue it will be time for finishing Liao and Bohai (especially for later the sources are severely lacking, so it will be quick). I'm still torn on whether to add Korea immediately or move it to 1.1. We will see.
All things considered, I would like a release in June.
Changelog: - Corrected and improved Silk road routes. Added route through Dali, Tsongkha and along the eastern coast of India.
- Corrected positions in India.
This time there are no history files update. I could probably add what I've added in the meantime, but I don't want to break anything by adding WIP files, so I'll leave it be for now. The update is primarily to fix the issues reported above with positions in India.
Also, I've added a compatibility patch for Expanded Trade mod in the OP. To install copy files from the zip and overwrite those in the Expanded Trade mod.
I've no idea if the routes in India are historical. If someone wants to correct them, please I'll be happy to include his changes.
Cool, but the provinces from Gilan (666) to Muqan (2061) still don't connect and teleport you to the southern tip of India. Indian works however. I couldn't find any double province IDs in the files however so I don't know what is going wrong here.
Ah, ok. Sorry, I assumed that your report was entirely about India and didn't bother to check that Muqan is in Iran. It's also an issue with positions.
As it's a very small issue, I'll post the file instead of making update. Just copy it into Wudai Tongzhi/map directory and overwrite the old file.
Ah, ok. Sorry, I assumed that your report was entirely about India and didn't bother to check that Muqan is in Iran. It's also an issue with positions.
As it's a very small issue, I'll post the file instead of making update. Just copy it into Wudai Tongzhi/map directory and overwrite the old file.
