[Submod] Comprehensive Annals of Five Dynasties - 五代通志 - 01.09.2020 Release v. 1.0.5

[Submod] Comprehensive Annals of Five Dynasties - 五代通志 - 01.09.2020 Release v. 1.0.5

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ivkovac92

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Now the question. Do you guys prefer to have release later, but with Korea already in the mod? Or earlier with Korea added in 1.1? It's still gonna take me some time to patch up Liao and Balhae successor states, but Korea would for sure push the release well into July.
Personally, Korea won't matter to me. I'm attracted to this because of China.
 
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Alexandreia

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Now the question. Do you guys prefer to have release later, but with Korea already in the mod? Or earlier with Korea added in 1.1? It's still gonna take me some time to patch up Liao and Balhae successor states, but Korea would for sure push the release well into July.
China for now, Korea would make for a great 1.1
 
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Warial

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Im not sure how useful this is but here are some maps for Vietnam: https://khoahoc.tv/45-tam-ban-do-viet-nam-qua-cac-giai-doan-tu-the-ky-10-phan-1-67140
Damn, you reminded me that Vietnamese history is done only to the end of Ngo dynasty. I have trouble devising a setup for 12 Warlords era. To represent it accurately I would have to give Northern Vietnam bigger province density than any other region in the game, so it will be probably only possible in CK3 if they allow for independent barons.

Thanks for the maps, they confirm that my setup is historical. I've based it on the info contained in Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư (大越史記全書).

Are you Vietnamese by chance? Looking at the Wikipedia I saw it contained quite a lot of info not contained in Classical Chinese sources known to me, probably from unofficial histories and genealogical books. I would love to have some help with finding more info in Vietnamese-language sources on the county level rulers, warlords etc.

EDIT: OK, I guess you guys made it clear what you want. I'll finish Liao, make a sweep through history to correct all errors and pack the release. Korea for 1.1.
 
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matvprok

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I'll also vote to release Korea later and leave China for now, but also I'm for expanding Chinese flavor and mechanics after that release. For me, interesting gameplay and mechanics which simulate history irrespective of specific people are far more important that correct names of minor bureaucrats which you will find only after days of digging through the records and all of whom would be dead after several decades of playing.
More specifically, any thoughts on expanding religion, as Taoism don't exactly has content in vanilla and vanilla HIP?
 

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More specifically, any thoughts on expanding religion, as Taoism don't exactly has content in vanilla and vanilla HIP?
What kind of content do you have in mind?

Please note that the reason I didn't add any temples in China is that there wasn't an unified authority, all temples were pretty much independent, and they also held absolutely no political authority. It would be possible to add small flavour events based on some rituals and pursuit for elixir of life, but what kind of mechanics would you like to see?
 

wzfcns

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Of coz,China will be the main dish.
Then you can set many DLC:Korea,vietnam,Japan,etc
 

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Mitusonator

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Will you expand map a bit south to cover the tip of indian peninsula, cos it looks a bit strange, right now, that it is cut :p
 

Warial

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Will you expand map a bit south to cover the tip of indian peninsula, cos it looks a bit strange, right now, that it is cut :p
To be honest, Expanded Map edit did do so, but I intentionally cut it out back to save on some work. I'm not really interested in India and even less so in Africa, so researching history for Mogadishu and other provinces in that added land would be quite an endeavour for me. For China I think I'm able to reach the SWMH standard in historical research, for Africa I don't have that much passion or ability.
 
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vnth

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Duong 楊 family genealogy http://hoduongvietnam.com.vn/luoc-su-ho-duong-viet-nam-p768. Notable member included Duong Dinh Nghe 楊廷藝, warlord and adoptive father of DInh Bo Linh. SOme details contradict official sources however.

Nguyen family genealogy https://www.amazon.com/NGUYỄN-PHÚC-TỘC-THẾ-PHẢ/dp/B07B8WT3N2. They founded the last Vietnamese dynasty but thats not too important. What's more relevant is that they claimed descent from Nguyen Bac 阮匐, chancellor and sworn brother of Dinh Bo Linh and included a detailed family tree for the guy. I could only find a scanned version without readable text https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwMNdLUe0RCHNzZEakN5bXpyNFE/edit. Maybe you can machine translate this somehow. If not, I can translate the relevant parts if you want.
 
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Just a wild idea flashed in my brain.
Is there any possible that characters name spelt in Middle Chinese, based on reconstruction of Qieyun?
It comes to me when I was playing Ælfrēd "the great", since Anglo-Saxons is using ancient English.
And so do chinese ppl in 10C. whose name shall spell in middle Chinese.
I did not know is there any localisation standard in SMWH or HIP. But there's SED submod.
A native language is, perhaps, recommened.


Yeah I'm talking redo all 6000+ characters name. Curse me.
 

Warial

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Duong 楊 family genealogy http://hoduongvietnam.com.vn/luoc-su-ho-duong-viet-nam-p768. Notable member included Duong Dinh Nghe 楊廷藝, warlord and adoptive father of DInh Bo Linh. SOme details contradict official sources however.

Nguyen family genealogy https://www.amazon.com/NGUYỄN-PHÚC-TỘC-THẾ-PHẢ/dp/B07B8WT3N2. They founded the last Vietnamese dynasty but thats not too important. What's more relevant is that they claimed descent from Nguyen Bac 阮匐, chancellor and sworn brother of Dinh Bo Linh and included a detailed family tree for the guy. I could only find a scanned version without readable text https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwMNdLUe0RCHNzZEakN5bXpyNFE/edit. Maybe you can machine translate this somehow. If not, I can translate the relevant parts if you want.
Much obliged! I'll take a look when I've a moment.
Just a wild idea flashed in my brain.
Is there any possible that characters name spelt in Middle Chinese, based on reconstruction of Qieyun?
It comes to me when I was playing Ælfrēd "the great", since Anglo-Saxons is using ancient English.
And so do chinese ppl in 10C. whose name shall spell in middle Chinese.
I did not know is there any localisation standard in SMWH or HIP. But there's SED submod.
A native language is, perhaps, recommened.


Yeah I'm talking redo all 6000+ characters name. Curse me.
10 000+ Han characters right now. :p

Then there's that Qieyun approach would work for maybe characters in Southern China. For Northwestern China including Chang'an I would employ Coblin's Old Northwestern Chinese, which is reflected in Tibetan and Tangut. For Fujian something based on Proto-Min would have to be devised. Pulleybank's Late Middle Chinese could possibly be used for the rest of China. However, by 11th century we have evidence of Early Mandarin like varieties in the far north, the so-called Liao Chinese and Jin Chinese. It is also known that Sichuan had it's own peculiar dialect, far removed from that of the standard, although to my knowledge not much is known about it.

To even start such undertaking I would need to pull the sources, find the approaches I like, devise an orthography and then apply it to 10 000 characters (and as I have some Han era characters I would use Schuessler's Later Han Chinese, for Confucius I would have to pull Baxter and Sagart).

If someone want to play with that, all characters have their names spelled in Hanzi in the character history files. But it would take months for me to go through all of it alone and I'm not willing to go through that.

And if I do it for Chinese, I would have to do Middle Korean and Old Vietnamese too.
 
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Aerotinge

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I'm glad you like my bad joke.(?)
For Northwestern China including Chang'an I would employ Coblin's Old Northwestern Chinese
Well I even didn't know that. I guess I have to go back the college library for months.

Alright, it seems that playing with Late Middle Chinese is a dead end. And is han culture remaining the same?
I forget to mention in my previous post, that I would also like to see han culture splitting into several subcultures, not one mega culture under a culture_group.
You may know better than me, i.e splitting into Northwestern(西北民系/晉);Szechuan(巴蜀-川);Min;Wu;Yue(廣府民系);Hak...
10 000+ Han characters right now. :p
But 10,000+ han characters make any efforts looking pale and weak. :p
I'd better stop bothering you now. For better mod quality.
After all, it's not Mel Gibson filming the Passion of the Christ.
 
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Farbolo

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I'm glad you like my bad joke.(?)

Well I even didn't know that. I guess I have to go back the college library for months.

Alright, it seems that playing with Late Middle Chinese is a dead end. And is han culture remaining the same?
I forget to mention in my previous post, that I would also like to see han culture splitting into several subcultures, not one mega culture under a culture_group.
You may know better than me, i.e splitting into Northwestern(西北民系/晉);Szechuan(巴蜀-川);Min;Wu;Yue(廣府民系);Hak...

But 10,000+ han characters make any efforts looking pale and weak. :p
I'd better stop bothering you now. For better mod quality.
I don't think you are bothering Warial. I'd rather say you open up legitimate issues and wishes for a "fully flavorized china" (forgive me for making up this notion) that can be discussed ...
... for the time after an inital release encompassing the maximal geographical extension Warial has in mind. Others have mentioned the chinese meritocracy, I would add a wish for special events regarding mongol invasions and their possible takeover à la Kublai Khan, but I suppose all these things have to kind of join the end of the current queue ;-)
 

Warial

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I'd better stop bothering you now. For better mod quality.
Don't take me wrong. I love linguistics and I would like to include reconstructions in a more encompassing manner than currently. For now only Ganzhou Uyghurs and Lingchu Tibetans have their names spelled in LMC as I hoped to get close to the underlying Uyghur and Tibetans forms of their names.
In the inaptly names Tangut.ods file, I keep the researched data on languages, with primary focus currently on Tangut (and Khitan once next update goes live). I started making columns for MC in preparation, but due of lack of time never filled them out and ended up dropping the thing.

You may know better than me, i.e splitting into Northwestern(西北民系/晉);Szechuan(巴蜀-川);Min;Wu;Yue(廣府民系);Hak
I did consider that. The problem with culture is that it wasn't all that relevant politically. It was more about the dichotomy between Hua and Yi, Chinese and Barbarians. I do consider the current cultural setup a placeholder though and I'm open to suggestions.

Though changing cultures of all those characters..
Others have mentioned the chinese meritocracy, I would add a wish for special events regarding mongol invasions and their possible takeover à la Kublai Khan, but I suppose all these things have to kind of join the end of the current queue ;-)
You know guys, if you want to see some flavour stuff sooner, then I invite you guys to try modding. That's how I stared when I first made Fall of Goryeo events for M&T. In the end there's only so much I can do on my own and the last thing I want to do is hyping people with promises of features I will never end up making.
 
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theKing1988

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I can only concur with Warial. We need more modders, if we want all the ideas on the forums to become reality. And everyone can teach themselves to mod.

I didn't know much about modding, if i knew anything at all, when i started modding back in 2015
 
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