[Submod] Comprehensive Annals of Five Dynasties - 五代通志 - 01.09.2020 Release v. 1.0.5

[Submod] Comprehensive Annals of Five Dynasties - 五代通志 - 01.09.2020 Release v. 1.0.5

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steveconnell

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I was supposed to make a dev diary on some more character history, but since it seems to not really be that interesting to non-Chinese history buffs like me, I'll just leave this.

Version 1.0.1 released
Link in the OP updated.

Changelog:
- Compatibility with Frosty3
- Corrected Trade Routes
- Corrected province onwerships and additions of prefects during Later Zhou-Southern Tang war
- Other title and character history corrections
- Fix to BCE characters resurrecting on save reload
- Submission CB changed to subjugate Imperial title only if the capital is occupied by the attacker OR Emperor is a prisoner of the attacker. In case neither is true the CB will transfer occupied vassals to the attacker.
- Fixed cases when there were multiple new custom empires created at once
- Added a workaround around the bug that changed back the CoA on reload
- Korean female names for Bohai culture instead of Chinese
- Added Shangdang Miao (上黨苗) clan along with 8th century chancellor Miao Jinqing (苗晉卿) and his playable descendant Miao Shen (苗紳) a prefects of Jiangzhou (江州刺史) in 867.
- Added missing brothers of Zhao Kuangyin and some of their children and grandchildre
Thanks for the com patch for the latest frosty edition.
I don't think the female Bohai culture names were added to the latest download. As a stop gap i have imported the MEIOU Korean names over.

I wouldn't mind some character biographies of major characters. Ah, I remember the old days playing the ROTK VI (Romance of the Three Kingdoms) reading almost every biography. It is what got me interested in reading the history of east Asia and the rest is history.

EDIT: i noticed something else strange about Balhae. It starts as a Bureaucratic government and within a few months of the game start the ruler will create the chiefdom of Bohai switching to Tribal government in the process.
 
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wzfcns

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I find in game,Wang(king)'s son also has the title Wang.It should be Wangzi(Prince)
 

Warial

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Youre right it's a terrible idea. I'll put my attempt here anyway in case you're curious how it's badly it turned out.
Yeah, but the idea was nice!
Thanks for the com patch for the latest frosty edition.
I don't think the female Bohai culture names were added to the latest download. As a stop gap i have imported the MEIOU Korean names over.
Yeah, that's strange... will be fixed for the next one for sure.

I wouldn't mind some character biographies of major characters. Ah, I remember the old days playing the ROTK VI (Romance of the Three Kingdoms) reading almost every biography. It is what got me interested in reading the history of east Asia and the rest is history.
Adding biographies would be a bit impossible in the game. At best I could add wikipedia links to the rest of characters as I added those for maybe a dozen of characters or so.

EDIT: i noticed something else strange about Balhae. It starts as a Bureaucratic government and within a few months of the game start the ruler will create the chiefdom of Bohai switching to Tribal government in the process.
Ok, I have no idea what's happening here.
I find in game,Wang(king)'s son also has the title Wang.It should be Wangzi(Prince)
To be honest I though that you can't have separate princely titles for King-tier and Emperor-tier, but it turns out it is possible, so I'll be correcting it for the next patch with 王子 and 皇子.
 
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vnth

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Adding biographies would be a bit impossible in the game. At best I could add wikipedia links to the rest of characters as I added those for maybe a dozen of characters or so.
Maybe you can just post short introductions or interesting tidbits right here. There used to be some threads about interesting characters or dynasties to play as for the vanilla game. I for one would love to know more about these folks. I looked up the guy who claimed to have descended from Liu Bei and turns out he poisoned his dad and caned his brother to death. Hilarious.

On an unrelated note, is Yang Chonggui/Ye/Jiye in the game?
 
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Warial

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Maybe you can just post short introductions or interesting tidbits right here. There used to be some threads about interesting characters or dynasties to play as for the vanilla game. I for one would love to know more about these folks. I looked up the guy who claimed to have descended from Liu Bei and turns out he poisoned his dad and caned his brother to death. Hilarious.
Guys, don't forget I'm a one man team! :p
On an unrelated note, is Yang Chonggui/Ye/Jiye in the game?
Actually, he himself is not, but his father Yang Xin 楊信 and younger brother Yang Chongxun 楊重訓 are. By mistake they are not Han, but Tangut though...
In Zizhi Tongjian where they appear they are not connected to Yang Ye in any way, that they are related can be infered only from History of Song biography of Yang Ye. However, at that point I didn't being reading History of Song yet, so I didn't connect the dots. I'll have to fix it for the next update.
 
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steveconnell

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EDIT: i noticed something else strange about Balhae. It starts as a Bureaucratic government and within a few months of the game start the ruler will create the chiefdom of Bohai switching to Tribal government in the process.

Ok, I have no idea what's happening here.
Yes strange. I wonder if giving the King of Balhae the Duchy Of Bohai title at game start may help avert this issue. If I play as the King and claim the title of Bohai it is a Duchy title as expected. However If playing as a tribal vassal under the King and he creates the title he and Balhae become tribal.

It gets stranger as this also impacted Tang in somehow. My heir who is of the Dae dynasty became the Tang ruler after the emperor passed away (Matrilineal marriage from when he was a prince) but the new Dae dynasty ruler title was not Huangdi but Grand prince.
Shouldn't the Tang dynasty pass to another of the Li dynasty line instead of passing to another family since Chinese dynasties were tied to a dynastic family.
 
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Warial

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It gets stranger as this also impacted Tang in somehow. My heir who is of the Dae dynasty became the Tang ruler after the emperor passed away (Matrilineal marriage from when he was a prince) but the new Dae dynasty ruler title was not Huangdi but Grand prince.
Shouldn't the Tang dynasty pass to another of the Li dynasty line instead of passing to another family since Chinese dynasties were tied to a dynastic family.
What was the succession law? Tang is primogeniture, so there should be no way for it to pass to other dynasty, unless they change the succession law (and I'm considering limiting Han culture to be uniquely primogeniture and agnatic) or are installed by claimant. I will need more info.
 
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steveconnell

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What was the succession law? Tang is primogeniture, so there should be no way for it to pass to other dynasty, unless they change the succession law (and I'm considering limiting Han culture to be uniquely primogeniture and agnatic) or are installed by claimant. I will need more info.
Unfortunately I removed that save when transitioning from Frosty 2 to Frosty 3. Besides it was getting messy, after my son became ruler as a child, there was a revolt and he was removed. I then plotted and had the new Tang ruler killed. After than the throne passed between many different families as I plotted against each ruler and they were promptly killed. I think plots are too easy to execute when Imperial decay is high.

I have managed to easily replicate the Tang succession issue. The former Emperor accepted matrilineal marriage which surprised me since it was his only son and heir. See screenshots

I also have a screenshot where Balhae transitions to Tribal. This is easy to replicate, play any Balhae tribal vassal and just wait until around late 867 to early 868..
The rest of the Tang succession are of the Li dynasty except the Emperor's son (Dae dynasty)
1594771062192.png

Plot power defence from imperial decay is easy to game to remove ruler after ruler increasing imperial decay.
1594771499992.png

leading to this (My spymaster spy stat is 32 and my own is 27)
1594772079145.png

Balhae Tribal change is easily replicated and occurs around October 867 to early 868.
1594778597775.png
 
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Warial

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I have managed to easily replicate the Tang succession issue. The former Emperor accepted matrilineal marriage which surprised me since it was his only son and heir. See screenshots
Well, this will happen if you use matrilineal marriages, I'm not sure why you are reporting this as a bug. I can't influence AI's willingness to accept matrilineal marriages, nor can I change primogeniture to accept only dynasty members. Such marriages just didn't happen, so if you don't want such behaviour disable them.
 

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I didn't say it was a bug. I said it was strange. The marriage thing wasn't the point I was trying to make (I wanted to see what would happen to the Tang) After the heir was removed by usurption the Tang throne passed through many hands of different familes, never returning to the Li family. The ruler titles also changed from Huangdi to Grand prince and stayed that way. This part was what I was really flagging up. I mentioned in my original post the marriage was matrilineal but you asked about succession laws.

Is the absurd plot power against the emperor normal, should imperial decay influence plot power this much. You can literally kill one emperor after the other rocketing imperial decay to max.
 
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Such a fascinating submod, I will definitely try it out this weekend.

Have you thought borrowing some of the imperial mechanics from the Three Kingdoms mod (with JaceX's permission)? I think the way the Inner Court is represented there could fit in well with this mod e.g. have it be a separate titular title assigned to the Empress.

Do what that mod does and have the children of consorts be considered bastards (or a functionally similar trait) to represent how the Empress' sons have priority in the succession. But leave the decision to legitimise them for free if there aren't available heirs, a bit like the 'acknowledge inheritance' decision from the AGoT mod for the Ironborn.

Anyway enough musing from me, this submod is such a tremendous amount of work and research. Can't wait to try it out.
 

Warial

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I didn't say it was a bug. I said it was strange. The marriage thing wasn't the point I was trying to make (I wanted to see what would happen to the Tang) After the heir was removed by usurption the Tang throne passed through many hands of different familes, never returning to the Li family. The ruler titles also changed from Huangdi to Grand prince and stayed that way. This part was what I was really flagging up. I mentioned in my original post the marriage was matrilineal but you asked about succession laws.
Ah, sorry, I focued on this one point and forgot about the rest.

As of latest version the Tang title should be destroyed and a new Empire created in case of a dynasty, was that not the case?
Grand Prince... sounds like there was maybe a government change? Was it still a Chinese Imperial Government or did it become tribal too?

Is the absurd plot power against the emperor normal, should imperial decay influence plot power this much. You can literally kill one emperor after the other rocketing imperial decay to max.
I guess it's more a question to EMF, as I didn't change the values at all.
Have you thought borrowing some of the imperial mechanics from the Three Kingdoms mod (with JaceX's permission)? I think the way the Inner Court is represented there could fit in well with this mod e.g. have it be a separate titular title assigned to the Empress.

Do what that mod does and have the children of consorts be considered bastards (or a functionally similar trait) to represent how the Empress' sons have priority in the succession. But leave the decision to legitimise them for free if there aren't available heirs, a bit like the 'acknowledge inheritance' decision from the AGoT mod for the Ironborn.
I haven't played Three Kingdoms in a long time, I didn't know he introduced such features. I will take a look at the bastard thing for sure.
 

MrWeRD

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Are there any way to overthrow the current dynasty without player intervention? Like, will the Mongolians or Jurchen spawn? Or is China just like a normal imperial title?
 

Warial

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Are there any way to overthrow the current dynasty without player intervention? Like, will the Mongolians or Jurchen spawn? Or is China just like a normal imperial title?
Both Qiyad Mongols and Wanyan clan are already playable on the map, so there's nothing to spawn really. Although I might instead change the spawning event to give extra boons to Mongols, so they become a menace.

Apart from Mongols, Chinese Empires are subject to the same rules as other EMF empires. For example successful military commanders get claims on the Empire. Independent characters can create new Empires and get a submission CB which subjugate all occupied provinces and in case the enemy Emperor is captured or capital taken conquers the entire empire.

From what I've seen vassals tend to be quite discontent due to the sheer amount of them, so an implosion seems quite likely outcome, especially in 867 start as Tang starts with 40 Imperial Decay.
 

steveconnell

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Ah, sorry, I focued on this one point and forgot about the rest.

As of latest version the Tang title should be destroyed and a new Empire created in case of a dynasty, was that not the case?
Grand Prince... sounds like there was maybe a government change? Was it still a Chinese Imperial Government or did it become tribal too?
I took a look and managed to trigger it again where the non-dynastic Tang heir become ruler. What happened was the name Tang remained but the colour changed from its beige pink colour to white. I saved, exited the game and reloaded to try and play as them but it wouldn't let me. The game says "Not allowed to play a Republic".

1594847650065.png
 
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Warial

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I took a look and managed to trigger it again where the non-dynastic Tang heir become ruler. What happened was the name Tang remained but the colour changed from its beige pink colour to white. I saved and exited the game and reloaded to try and play as them but it wouldn't let me the game says not allowed to play a republic.

I maybe have an idea what could be wrong, I'll take a look tomorrow.
 

Warial

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Version 1.0.2 released
Link in the OP updated.

Changelog:
- Split Longyou (隴右) duchy from Jingyuan (涇原).
- Spread out Bon holy sites to Lhasa, Tsongkha and Garze.
- Imperial and Royal Princes now have correctly localised titles.
- The famous Yang family corrected and added into the game.
- Added Xunyang Tao (潯陽陶) clan with Jin-era Tao Kan (陶侃) as ancestor and Tao Xiang (陶祥) prefect of Jiangzhou (江州刺史) as playable character in 877.
- Taoist character are limited to Agnatic succession only.
- Chinese Imperial governmenta are limited to primogeniture.
- Factions for Chinese Empires will not form with claimants of different dynasties than the ruling one and will only do so when Imperial Decay rises above 50.
- Chinese Imperial coronations will no longer require a presence of a priest.
- Decision to form Chosen of Ashoka Holy Order is only visible to characters in India.
- Tiger Hunt allowed also in China.
- Diwali Festival limited to Indian Buddhists.
- Corrected the flag of Southern Liang (南涼).
- Only de jure Jiedushi titles are creatable.
- Added a setup event which removes inherited claims from Jiedushi at the game start. (those posts are appointments, not inheritable titles)
- On usurpation of Imperial title all counties owned by former Emperor will be transfered to the new one.
 
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matvprok

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So, while your reasoning behind only-cities setup is understandable, it leads to situation where no one of Taoist holy sites is settled and therefore Taoism has lower moral authority than it could have to. It would probably be better for gameplay if you add temples at least at holy sites located in China, and in theory at other important centers of religion, if there are any anyway except of holy cites.

Edit: Oh, also you probably should add some crossings over Yangtze, as there now aren't any (also because of that Wu has its name displayed on map twice, one for parts on north and on south of river)
 
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