Submarine Torpedo and AA armament should be upgradable

[cliffordhud]

there are some, particularly turret upgrades, but i didnt save the urls while i was reading them months ago because i didnt think anyone would need them. if i find them ill post them. but the below would serve as a good example itself, queen elizabeth class bships receiving major upgrades in between 2 world wars :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_class_battleship#Between_the_Wars

also florida class us bships :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_class_battleship#Machinery

I think the interwar upgrades of some BBs was largely driven by the naval treaties - which basically stopped new BBs being built for c.15 years. The major navies really had no choice - if they want "better" BBs they were forced to rebuild the old ones.

In my view this is completely different to "upgrading" of secondary systems in HOI.

If you look back at the naval construction programmes in the early decades of the 20th century the upgrading took place as each class of battleship (pre and post dreadnought) was an incremental improvement on the previous one. All the effort was on new and better - there was no effort put into upgrading older units (until you get into addition of DP weapons etc later on - post WW1 - after the majority of the units were scrapped).

 

[Isegrimm]

Is it really that simple ?!! thanks Danevang

It is easy to mod this yourself. Just open the Technologies folder, and edit the Naval Technology.txt

Find submarine_antiaircraft and submarine_torpedoes



Change the in both AA and torpedoes to

Done, now it's upgradable.

 

[unmerged(304296)]

The sub techs you are talking about do upgrade. I still have the original Type 1's that started in 1936 and it is now 1944 in a game I am currently running. I know because I have kept them in single units and they still have the commanders assigned to them at the start. However, when tooltipped they are indicated as Type XXI with 2x20mm AA and Zaunkoenig torpedos. All the crew training and doctrines are updated. What did not update was hull type and engines so they still have only a 500KM radius of action.

 

[xerxesking]

even the hull. fitting bships with anti torpedo bulges were a common practice. and noone can say that it was impossible to implant extra armor to battleships either. you would increase the tonnage, and reduce the speed or do some other concessions or would have to make upgrades to other aspects to keep them also current, but, technically, they were possible to do.

armour could be and was added to capital ships. the japs, in one case, added somthing like 50% more armour to the kongo class, but they couldn't fix the underlaying problems of the kongos faulty pre-ww1 armour disribution.

my point is these were not done, because battleships became obsolete starting from mid 30s.

try early 40's. before maybe '39, the carrier planes that dominated the war simply hadn't been designed. when building a battleship in '36, airplanes would be low of your priorities. just look at how pretty much every ship had to massivly upgrade their AA weaponry and doctrines.

also, thier are plenty of things that couldn't be upgraded. I've never heard of a major warship having it;s engines upgraded, and I've heard of only one class getting a main armament upgrade (the japanese Mogami class heavy cruiser, which underwent a pre-planned upgrade form triple 6" turrets to double 8" turrets. frankly, considering the effectiveness of US 6" armed CAs, it was likey a wasted effort)

 

[unmerged(304296)]

armour could be and was added to capital ships. the japs, in one case, added somthing like 50% more armour to the kongo class, but they couldn't fix the underlaying problems of the kongos faulty pre-ww1 armour disribution.




try early 40's. before maybe '39, the carrier planes that dominated the war simply hadn't been designed. when building a battleship in '36, airplanes would be low of your priorities. just look at how pretty much every ship had to massivly upgrade their AA weaponry and doctrines.

also, thier are plenty of things that couldn't be upgraded. I've never heard of a major warship having it;s engines upgraded, and I've heard of only one class getting a main armament upgrade (the japanese Mogami class heavy cruiser, which underwent a pre-planned upgrade form triple 6" turrets to double 8" turrets. frankly, considering the effectiveness of US 6" armed CAs, it was likey a wasted effort)

All US battleships were upgraded between the wars. These rebuilds included engine upgrades and main armament upgrades.. The Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were to be upgraded from 11" guns to 15" guns and the new turrets were built and ready to be installed, but OKW decided to put them into coast defence instead.

 

[Pro_Consul]

and if im not mistaken there was an aircraft carrier upgraded to a nuclear engine ... what was its name tho

If it is still of any interest, this did not happen. The only nuclear powered aircraft carriers from the very first one, USS Enterprise, have all been purpose built as nuclear vessels.

Edit: it prolly isn't of interest, though, since this is a 2 year necro thread.

 

[unmerged(304296)]

@Pro_Consul;
Like your sig

 

[misterbean]

it's not just subs. how about HMS Refit and HMS Repair?

 

[Isegrimm]

cheers scythyan,

i will look out for this 'bug' I may have a related problem with a beta patch I may have incorrectly installed so maybe confusing matters;

I have just installed dies rie mod so I restarting a war today and play out but remember to check my subs/ to be honest I have been sacraficing my early type subs early on so I will see this time

The sub techs you are talking about do upgrade. I still have the original Type 1's that started in 1936 and it is now 1944 in a game I am currently running. I know because I have kept them in single units and they still have the commanders assigned to them at the start. However, when tooltipped they are indicated as Type XXI with 2x20mm AA and Zaunkoenig torpedos. All the crew training and doctrines are updated. What did not update was hull type and engines so they still have only a 500KM radius of action.

 

[Kaiser Bill]

there is also an issue with not being able to upgrade a battleship's guns or engine though :

during the pre-dreadnought era, many battleships were upgraded. that era was an era of fast innovation, and everything was constantly changing. therefore instead of writing off a battleship you completed 5 years ago because of new innovations, you took the effort to upgrade them.

in pre ww2 era, the development slowed. the guns of bships already reached massive size, nearing the 400 mm range. but more importantly, carriers have arrived, and made the position of battleship a questionable one. your bship could deliver 400 mm shells to some km range, but aircraft could deliver bigger ones over hundreds of kilometers, and for much cheaper steel resource cost. therefore the development of battleship has stopped.

however, during the period in 1930s when the fate of battleship wasnt so decided, humongous battleship designs dwarfing the previous ones were already in progress. yamato, missouri, and similar. had the carrier not arrived, they would probably be worked on, and received upgrades.

and if im not mistaken there was an aircraft carrier upgraded to a nuclear engine ... what was its name tho

Off the top of my head I can think of no examples of main armament being replaced in a Battleship. Well in some cases they replaced with new models of the same caliber. It takes YEARS to replace the armaments, in fact one of the limiting factors in battleship production is the time involved in assembling the main armament. Frankly in a similar timespan you can build a brand new battleship and unless your old one is really odd there would be no point in this.

The one major historical option for upgrading armament was the two KMS battlecruisers which were undergunned having only 11" guns. It was considered several times to upgrade them to less 15" weapons but nothing came of it in the end.

 

[Silencez]

small heads up:

quad 22mm didn't exist, was the quad 20mm (or flakvierling).
existing boats (VII /IX) where to be upgraded to 2X37mm flaks (Flak 43 Zwilling), as the 20mm proved ineffective short range and multiple hits where needed.
The XXI boats were to be equiped with the new 2X30mm belt fed aa guns.Tests showed for the Kügelblitz Panzer that these guns were very effective (had a similar 30mm canon). due to production problems and priority for land units, 2X20mm where delivered instead. The XXI however was to evade surface action as max possible.