Subjugated empire disappears without notice

[schorsch_76]

Hello Paradox!

First: Thanks for the great game!

Second: I play Stellaris on linux many games already and today i encountered a problem that i cant explain. I think its a bug. I subjugated an empire or the most part of it. When the game reaches 4. May then the subjugated empire disappears completely without any notice what happened. I checked the error.log but it is empty. All DLCs are activated. On the mods i just use "Tech Tiers" and "Tiny Outlier v2".

If i look at the empire, it states that we dont know what origin they have. but that is all i can see...

Best regards

Georg

 

[InvisibleBison]

It's not a bug. The Mathin Confederation has only one planet which only one pop, a DAAR machine drone. That drone disassembles itself at the start of the month, so the planet becomes uncolonized, which in turn causes the nation to disband because it has no planets.

 

[TrotBot]

It's not a bug. The Mathin Confederation has only one planet which only one pop, a DAAR machine drone. That drone disassembles itself at the start of the month, so the planet becomes uncolonized, which in turn causes the nation to disband because it has no planets.

what? why? what is this? is this an event?

 

[InvisibleBison]

what? why? what is this? is this an event?

I'm not sure how this situation came about. The most likely explanation I can find is that the Mathin Confederation was a rebel of the DAAR and the OPhelped them conquer a bunch of the DAAR's territory - except that the DAAR don't have claims on any of the Mathin's systems, so that's probably not correct. Unless we get more information, I think this is going to be a mystery.

 

[TrotBot]

I'm not sure how this situation came about. The most likely explanation I can find is that the Mathin Confederation was a rebel of the DAAR and the OPhelped them conquer a bunch of the DAAR's territory - except that the DAAR don't have claims on any of the Mathin's systems, so that's probably not correct. Unless we get more information, I think this is going to be a mystery.

wait. what if OP has some anti-AI policies and by subjugating them he made them purge themselves?

 

[InvisibleBison]

wait. what if OP has some anti-AI policies and by subjugating them he made them purge themselves?

I don't think an overlord's policies apply to their subjects. Even if that's the case, it wouldn't apply here; both the OP's nation and the Mathin Confederation have Robotic Workers set to Allowed. The DAAR are only being purged because they're machine intelligence pops.

 

[TrotBot]

I don't think an overlord's policies apply to their subjects. Even if that's the case, it wouldn't apply here; both the OP's nation and the Mathin Confederation have Robotic Workers set to Allowed. The DAAR are only being purged because they're machine intelligence pops.

oh so they created a non-machine subject out of a machine intelligence by only part conquering them and then status quo?

 

[schorsch_76]

Hi,
there was the DAAR. I started war againest them as my military was more powerful than theirs. As i didnt had enough influence to claim what i wanted, i demanded vassalization of them, what they declined. So i started a subjugate war. As the war was nearly over my war exhaustion also reached 100%. As the 2 years were over i had to status quo. From this status quo the Mathin Confederation arose. I dont think that i have anti KI policy in place. They are still not my empire. They are their own empire so my policies dont apply to them (yet).

 

[rubert]

Seems like weird edge case, subjugation war not creating machine empire subject when fighting against another ME and when the war ends to a partial victory which results in the new "organic" empire purging all the Machine Empire pops as they can't survive outside of machine empires.

Maybe make a bug report.

 

[Strangedane]

Seems like weird edge case, subjugation war not creating machine empire subject when fighting against another ME and when the war ends to a partial victory which results in the new "organic" empire purging all the Machine Empire pops as they can't survive outside of machine empires.

Maybe make a bug report.

While wonky this is precisely the result I would expect.
The drones cannot exist without the hivemind, so any drones that get cut off dies.
The loss of space goes hand in hand with that as the starbases are also an extension of the hivemind.
How we're able to capture the ME starbases in the first place has always been beyond me, but thems the mechanics.

It definetely shouldn't create a new ME, as that would mean anybody should be able to make such a thing if they manage to get hold of a ME drone.
That's suspension of disbelief on a level that makes even space travel times look realistic by comparison.

 

[schorsch_76]

While wonky this is precisely the result I would expect.
The drones cannot exist without the hivemind, so any drones that get cut off dies.
The loss of space goes hand in hand with that as the starbases are also an extension of the hivemind.
How we're able to capture the ME starbases in the first place has always been beyond me, but thems the mechanics.

It definetely shouldn't create a new ME, as that would mean anybody should be able to make such a thing if they manage to get hold of a ME drone.
That's suspension of disbelief on a level that makes even space travel times look realistic by comparison.

So: i could subjugate the ME empire, but only if i would have managed to subjugate all of the empire. Including all planets? Right? If i would later integrate them into my empire, i need on all planets organic pops as the drones would disassemble? Even when all of them are integrated in my organic empire?

 

[Strangedane]

So: i could subjugate the ME empire, but only if i would have managed to subjugate all of the empire. Including all planets? Right? If i would later integrate them into my empire, i need on all planets organic pops as the drones would disassemble? Even when all of them are integrated in my organic empire?

You cannot integrate ME drones.

If you fully subjugate, then integrate an ME, all the drones simply die, and the ME stops existing.

You DO keep the starbases though, which again, is really weird, though that could be part of the integration process.

 

[TrotBot]

i wish, like hive minds have genetic assimilation, that bio empires had synthetic reprogramming tech of some kind to make these machines individuals.

 

[rubert]

While wonky this is precisely the result I would expect.
The drones cannot exist without the hivemind, so any drones that get cut off dies.
The loss of space goes hand in hand with that as the starbases are also an extension of the hivemind.
How we're able to capture the ME starbases in the first place has always been beyond me, but thems the mechanics.

It definetely shouldn't create a new ME, as that would mean anybody should be able to make such a thing if they manage to get hold of a ME drone.
That's suspension of disbelief on a level that makes even space travel times look realistic by comparison.

I don't really agree with the last part, at least when it comes to Machine Empires or Hiveminds capable of doing diplomacy with normal empires. Since they agreed to the peace deal they should be able to split off their Central CPU or whatever to allow the functioning of the new Gestalt empire as a vassal. Difference between a single drone vs. gestalt agreeing to the peace deal is that in the peace deal the parent gestalt is the one handling the split. It really doesn't break the "gestalts can't release other gestalts as a vassal" because the peace-deal forces it even though the Gastalt doesn't like splitting self.

From gameplay perspective if the partial victor releases same type empire as the winner then Machine Empire achieveing partial victory against normal empire should release another machine empire instead of the organic empire which (I think) happens now.

Alternatively war goals should be changed so that the wonky stuff the OP encountered doesn't happen. Eg. vassalisation only happens in a total victory and in partial victory the planets are directly transferred to the winner. Same should apply to the organic hiveminds, hivemind vs machine empires or hivemind/machine empire attacking against normal empire etc.

I think adjusting the types of released vassals would be easiest and, imo, more logical way to handle the partial victories. Eg. vassalize part of a hive mind and you get a hive mind vassal etc. Current system of splitting non-functional empires is broken so it should be fixed one way or another.

 

[GloatingSwine]

So: i could subjugate the ME empire, but only if i would have managed to subjugate all of the empire. Including all planets? Right? If i would later integrate them into my empire, i need on all planets organic pops as the drones would disassemble? Even when all of them are integrated in my organic empire?

Yes, if you fully subjugated them they'd still exist as your vassal or tributary. When you acheive partial success in a war to vassalise you create a puppet state out of whatever space you grabbed, and it's technically a new empire so it looks like it's not being set up with the proper hive mind authority.

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

So: i could subjugate the ME empire, but only if i would have managed to subjugate all of the empire. Including all planets? Right? If i would later integrate them into my empire, i need on all planets organic pops as the drones would disassemble? Even when all of them are integrated in my organic empire?

My guess is that this would have worked.

If you demand subjugation and win the war you gain the target Empire in its entirety. If you only enforce status quo you are stuck with a clone of your empire.
This is at least how it's working for megacorporations. I assume this would be the case for machines (haven't tested with an organic overlord, but with a machine overlord it works like that).


Seems like a case of working as designed but not as intended.

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

Yes, if you fully subjugated them they'd still exist as your vassal or tributary. When you acheive partial success in a war to vassalise you create a puppet state out of whatever space you grabbed, and it's technically a new empire so it looks like it's not being set up with the proper hive mind authority.

I think the new Empire takes the authority of the liberating Empire. I have seen exactly that using subjugation casus belli as a megacorp.