Subjugate clan becoming leader... is it possible?

[Marconius]

Here's an idea I've been having for a game: suppose you start as a small clan and get attacked by a larger one; rather than giving up then and there, you offer subjugation, which is accepted. You become part of a larger clan.

Now my question is, is it possible to make a bid for clan leadership from this situation? I'm guessing it would be complicated, but can it be done at all or is there just no way?

 

[5lyder]

Only members of the family (clan) can become clan leaders, so it's impossible.

 

[unmerged(377420)]

Hm, what if you marry your son to one of their daughters. Would make the kid apart of the family, technically. Then again, I doubt they went that far in the design and even if they did, the chances are close to zip.

 

[5lyder]

Huh, marrying your son to one of their daughters would make her part of your family, not otherwise. Keep in mind that females cannot inherit land.

 

[Marconius]

Yeah, as far as I can tell, 5lyder is correct... Although it may be interesting to see what happens if you kill all the males in a dynasty, with the only possible male heir being the husband of one of the daughters, from a different dynasty.

What does happen if there are no males alive in a clan anyway?

 

[unmerged(377420)]

Yeah, as far as I can tell, 5lyder is correct... Although it may be interesting to see what happens if you kill all the males in a dynasty, with the only possible male heir being the husband of one of the daughters, from a different dynasty.

What does happen if there are no males alive in a clan anyway?

This is what I was sort of hinting towards. Yes, she is apart of your family, but she is still descended from the main one you're trying to take and the bloodline and blah blah. Either way, it's pretty much impossible. haha

 

[Secret Master]

There is something to consider with letting another clan subjugate you.

You can use it as a tool to buy time; I have found it easier to plot with the vassals of my big enemies if I am a member of their clan. You can always use yourself as a poison to work from within.

Of course, the AI doesn't often let you get away with just being subjugated.

 

[unmerged(169164)]

I noticed that AI had an access to a plot reading X tries to usurp authority. Do not know if it is linked to the possibility of hijacking a clan family authority.

Never had it. Maybe linked to shogunate.

And what about civil war too? What happens if you start a civil war and are the winning side in this case?

I had a game like that with Oyama clan getting subjugated by Usuegi but I broke free in the end.

 

[Marconius]

You can only start a Civil War if you lose a bid for clan leadership, so can't do that as a subjugated clan.

As for "working from within"... this sounds fun at first, until you actually try it and spend endless years doing nothing but twiddling your thumbs and waiting for either a war (in which you can only use your tiny retinues anyway) or some neat opportunity to break free and maybe rally some support... so I honestly found it rather boring.

 

[Pippin123]

Yes, it seems the only thing you can hope for is agree to subjugation, then convince unhappy vassals to "Form a new clan" with you.
Assuming they agree, and your new clan is not crushed right back...

 

[unmerged(382543)]

In the unlikely event that you manage to kill all the male courtiers in a clan and then all of the land holders* you can get heirs that are not of the bloodline. Upon succession all of the lands change their color and name to the new ruling family. I don't see this being practical as it's rather difficult just to kill land owners but I suppose if you spent the full game length sending out absurd numbers of ninja you might be able to do it. Otherwise I don't see this happening hardly ever without debug controls involved.

*When you give titles to courtiers they generate a little court of their own so you'd never get anywhere trying to murder from the top down.