Subject Nations Survival Strategies Collection

[unmerged(804580)]

The 1.4 removal of "cancel annexation" has made playing vassals or junior partners in a personal union much more difficult than it had been. Any vassal with a port, for example, could simply go out, colonize and declare independence from a safe haven, but this became more unrealistic now. Some of them have been worked out/researched by our fellow masochists on this forum, and I'd like to collect some of them here, since finding your way around the forum with the search function isn't exactly the easiest thing to do.

The scope of this internal link collection is vassals and the junior partners in a personal union. This does not include colonial nations and protectorates, who do not face the imminent annexation from the overlord.

Please leave the links to the strategy guides in the comment below, and if you have some yourself, post here and I'll add a link on this page. For the purpose of eccentricity, I'll sort them by their TAG codes and I'll ignore Sweden.

Junnior Partners:
Junior partners can hope for a natural dissolution due to their overlord falling to a negative prestige, but it is luck-based. Unless it is shown to happen consistently, it will not be regarded as a reliable strategy. However, strategies that rely on a counter resetting after a failed independence war has a place here.

* SUK: Sukhothai (#1#2) by Karavinka

Vassals:
The only hope for vassals is to win their independence through wars. The overlord may be forced to release your vassalage if defeated in a major war, but the chance is slim and unreliable as a strategy.

* KHA: Mongol Khanate by TheMeInTeam
* TAU: Taungu by TheMeInTeam


(I have my things for Armagnac, Khmer and Sukhothai, but I haven't gotten around playing them in 1.4. I will contribute them later if they're viable)

 

[TheMeInTeam]

For Mongol Khanate, IMO in the 2nd war vs Manchu you should overextend based on my new Ironman attempt, then break the truce and vassal them ASAP. It makes life a lot easier.

Taungu in 1.4:

1. At the start, Pegu will almost always support your independence, and often Lan Na will. Get them to do so and then ASAP declare on Shan before they pick up allies. You can easily win this war w/o going over FL if you wait for Pegu's forces; Lan Na is icing. Remember that in 1.4 separate peace from independence supporters will stop the war entirely with you still as a vassal, so don't get greedy. *Do* take the 1-2 provinces with your culture though, and independence.

2. Fabricate a claim and declare on Arakan. They are similarly your culture and rarely have help. Note: If Shan still doesn't have allies, break the truce and vassal them before going for Arakan .

With this, you'll have a few provinces, some decent allies, and Shan as a vassal. Work on picking up Ayuthaya as an ally and don't hesitate to cherry-pick on Bengal or someone in SEA if they've no units in the middle of a different war.

On breaking truces:

Truce-breaking is a situational move. It will flatten your stability and pile on massive WE. It's a gambit to get more land quickly. It is best applied in two situations:

1. Early on, with unified culture: In this situation, peasant rebels will break your country at peace, resetting stability and WE to 0. You lose lots of prestige, but if you're breaking the truce to get a worthy amount of land under a vassal, the damage to prestige/legitimacy can be well worth it.

2. Late-game as a gigantic rolling empire, you can buy the stab back and just trash your way through big OE via assaults before your target can recover.

 

[unmerged(804580)]

For Mongol Khanate, IMO in the 2nd war vs Manchu you should overextend based on my new Ironman attempt, then break the truce and vassal them ASAP. It makes life a lot easier.

Taungu in 1.4:

Nice... I was secretly hoping for you to show up with Taungu. I've seen your screenshot. B)

 

[RadRussian]

What about "Support Independence" assuming it got rid of the bugs?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

What about "Support Independence" assuming it got rid of the bugs?

With Taungu I mentioned it. With Mongol Khanate...yeah...good luck with that. Who's going to support you? You historic rival that borders you to the East? Your overlord? The heathen hordes next to Oirate (Chagatai will, under very specific scenarios involving the unusual early-targeting of Uzbek by Oirate)? Ming won't; they actually like the Oirate horde somewhat.

 

[unmerged(804580)]

Sukhothai:

Sukhothai early game is a game of diplomacy and alliances. No tactical moves will give your OPM any chance against Ayutthaya. Even scorching earth isn't really going to help you: you either bring enough people to your cause, or run away.

Things to keep in mind:

* Unless you're really unlucky, the personal union will dissolve eventually.
* The PU began in 1438, so you have 40 years of either waiting game or seeking independence war.
* The 1.4 removal of 'cancel annexation' will make indefinite waiting game impossible.

Alliances:

* While each game may play differently, count on Ayutthaya allying Dai Viet.
* If Pegu allies Ayutthaya, restart.
* Lan Xang and Champa are likely to rival Dai Viet, so if done sufficiently early, an independence war without them will block Dai Viet from marching through their territory. It is possible to get them to support your independence, but this will also mean you'll have to face DV as well.
* Ayutthaya and Aceh will fight over Malacca; how fiercely depends on the situation. If Ayutthaya makes significant gains against Aceh, consider restarting the game. They will almost always rival each other, but unless Aceh expands into Malay peninsula and comes to blow with Ayutthaya, it can be difficult to make them support your independence.

Thus, the ideal situation will be: Lan Xang and Champa rivaling DV, and Pegu and Aceh supporting your independence. But still improve relations with Lan Xang and Champa, just in case - you have the time.

Before declaring war:

* Sukhothai is a base tax 2 province and can support at the most 5-6 regiments. Save some money. It's more important than manpower.
* Estimate your strengths. If you think your allies are sufficiently strong to dogpile on Ayutthaya, fabricate claim on Ratchaburi and make it your goal.
* If your allies are not strong enough, consider getting military access through Pegu, Taungu and Shan to reach northeastern India: if any of Assam, Kachar, Koch or Arakan is without allies, it's time for a no-CB war.

As you start the war, enter royal marriage with Shan immediately. (You should have improved the opinion.) They will not ally you right away; but if you decide to keep the province Sukhothai, you will need to ally them as soon as possible.

* If your allied forces are sufficient to take on Ayutthaya, your goal should be to 1. gain independence 2. revoke the Ayutthayan core on Sukhothai and 3. take Ratchaburi, and possibly Ligore. If you're winning by sufficiently large margin, take Nan as well; you can fabricate claim on Lan Na from there. You are independent.

* If your allied forces are not sufficient and you've moved your troop to Shan, declare war on your target with no CB, demand total annexation. Your allies should be earning you some time as both sides will need to raise funds, move around and engage each other. Once you annexed your target: surrender your home province Sukhothai. This will relocate your capital and allow you to core the conquered territories, but you will remain under the PU. You're either looking at a second war, or an extended timer to wait for the PU to dissolve.

* If you target Arakan, you may be able to white peace without surrendering Sukhothai and still core it - get a FBR from Ceylon.



Alternatively, if the PU dissolves naturally while you still an OPM:

* Ally and RM Shan immediately. Lan Xang and Dai Viet should be available as well.
* Ayutthaya will be immediately hostile. So will be Pegu.
* Whether you attack a random OPM or not is up to you. The map will be different each time and there's no reliable strategy if you find yourself independnt 50 years since the starting date. You will want to become part of the interlocked alliance web and seek a chance either against Pegu or Ayutthaya from there. Taking either Moulemein or Ratchaburi will allow you to colonize. Take exploration even if you don't have a port immediately.