Sub-Saharan techgroup is now only +60%!

[Krajzen]

I like how every discussion on tech groups inevitably derails into bad history, racism, and GG&S.

Well everything goes nice until someone implies racism in the system and all the hell breaks loose

Not taking either side in this debate, I'd simply like those more knowledgeable to comment on the matter:

Leaving aside the term cultural inferiority, which can carry nasty implications and imply a judgment of intrinsic value, could one say that the problems faced more by Africa than by other colonized regions were influenced by a greater difference in pre- and post-colonial political systems, as compared to other colonized regions?

You had stable, bureaucratic states like Ashanti, yes, but great swathes of sub-Saharan Africa didn't have the same levels of long-term stability and centralization as did European-colonized or influenced regions in Asia. Even in Ethiopia, recovery from a long period of heavy decentralization happened only a relatively short while before European interest in the continent increased greatly.

Coincidentally, Ghana - one of the African countries with the richest history of sophisticated states + probably the best developed African coutnry in terms of 'middle class' and 'intellectuals' - is one of the best African economies. Nigeria is recently also going through economic boom and has much better standard of living than neighboring countries, I don't know if it's relative success is the result of Nigeria being - again - one of the Subsaharan countries with the richest 'bureaucratic' history.

...although even these two exceptionally developed countries have like 2000$ per capita, much less than the least developed states of Europe :mellow:

 

[Resistance0108]

Chinese probably got changed too mate. No worries, the penalties won't be the same.

"same as China" means "same as current China".
Starting with lv2 and 60% penalty is much less stressful than current situation.

I think and wish that China also got changed...

 

[Darkath]

"same as China" means "same as current China".
Starting with lv2 and 60% penalty is much less stressful than current situation.

I think and wish that China also got changed...

I hope that china starts at level 3 now, at least.

 

[JellyRev]

East Asia arguably had a better history of freedom from religion since they didn't require people to believe in one religion (European religious freedom also involved a lot of killing people who disagreed with your idea of freedom), the rise of the merchant class and property rights actually led to the expansion of European slavery (plantation system, anyone?), and China played the consistent legal system game like a boss.

As I said for its own citizens.
Economic freedoms were/are much more important than social freedoms for higher gdp levels. usually social freedom issues only effect minorities. economic freedoms effect everyone via prices. Social freedoms are still important, like science being shunned does have a major effect.
Also remember during famine, coups and war legal systems do not stay intact and progress stagnates.
do to europe's war non-total war mindset during that time legal systems and capital was not destroyed to the same extent as typically seen.


Remember Europe starts at the same tech at the start of the game....The argument is not europe 1444 vs rotw 1444.
Tech is based on creating a difference europe 1600 vs rotw 1600 europe 1800 vs rotw 1800.

The devs could do a more exact system by having tech groups go up at different rates depending on the year and perhaps even putting huge 500% modifiers on groups do to lack of progress.

For historical reasons they could put americas at 60% until first contact then bump it up, they could also have triple tax base until first contact.

 

[LinusLinothorax]

In Ethiopia's case, several hundred years surrounded by enemies is rarely conductive to good stuff.

This and keeping their millenia old culture.

You had stable, bureaucratic states like Ashanti, yes, but great swathes of sub-Saharan Africa didn't have the same levels of long-term stability and centralization as did European-colonized or influenced regions in Asia. Even in Ethiopia, recovery from a long period of heavy decentralization happened only a relatively short while before European interest in the continent increased greatly.

One should also mention that the average African state had almost as much ethnicities as whole Europe. Try to rule such a mix-cultured realm for hundreds of years.

 

[Dakilla TM]

So now Africans are now only 40% less intelegent than europeans in Paradox's eyes?
A very small step in the right direction but tech groups based on race should be removed.

YAAYY! Thanks for derailing the entire thread! Dumb and ignorant posts never fail to entertain!

 

[oblio-]

One should also mention that the average African state had almost as much ethnicities as whole Europe. Try to rule such a mix-cultured realm for hundreds of years.

Well, we solved this problem centuries ago. Hutu-Tutsi style.
And in those few situations we didn't we just triggered 2 world wars.
We're just pots calling the kettle black.