Stuck in a limbo due to low World Tension

[sekelsenmat]

Hello, I just wonder if this happens to other people. I started a game a Dutch hoping to go Monarchist and get the "Putting the Raid on the Medway to Shame" achievement.

Germany went Oppose Hitler, so I was really happy: wow, neutral Germany, no invasion then!

Soviets invaded Afghanistan, Iran, those joined the allies, then the UK went fascist and had a civil war, Fascist UK joined Comintern. Poland attacked Latvia which was guaranteed by Monarchist Germany. Non-Aligned Japan invaded China. Italy attacked Yugo and is now at war with France & Yugo.

Pretty much the whole world except USA is at war, but, but the world tension is like 45%!!! And it's mid 41 already. Due to the stupid democratic or neutral stuff I can't do anything until WT is at least like 80%?

If you play Democratic/Neutral minor then you risk getting stuck in a limbo and there is no choice but restart?

Now I know why I never planed Democratic/Neutral before.... amazing.

 

[DicRoNero]

It isn't democrapcy itself which gimps you here, but most likely your Neutrality spirit. Otherwise you simply could have guaranteed someone and got involved this way, as that usually requires WT at 25% iirc.

 

[Diakonen]

Wow, Germany going Oppose Hitler in Iron Man? I have never seen this happened. You lucky bastard
But this is also probably why WT is low, since the Reich usually is the one who increases WT.

 

[brantodb01]

Yeah I think it's your nutrality spirit, try getting rid of that first then you can justify on someone to get involved however tbh I wouldn't recommend monarchist Netherlands, I've done a fair bit of them and tbh my favourite was going, 'lead the minor democracies' and getting the achievement for not losing a state until 1945.
However if you're purely going for achievements just go fascist and use planes & subs to bomb Britain to nothing

 

[sekelsenmat]

Yeah I think it's your nutrality spirit, try getting rid of that first then you can justify on someone to get involved however tbh I wouldn't recommend monarchist Netherlands, I've done a fair bit of them and tbh my favourite was going, 'lead the minor democracies' and getting the achievement for not losing a state until 1945.
However if you're purely going for achievements just go fascist and use planes & subs to bomb Britain to nothing

Yes, but I was hoping to get both this and "Walking the Thin Line", which excludes "Cave to Germany", so no fascism. I also don't want to go Communist as it is simply too unrealistic for my stomach.

It isn't democrapcy itself which gimps you here, but most likely your Neutrality spirit. Otherwise you simply could have guaranteed someone and got involved this way, as that usually requires WT at 25% iirc.

I do have a save from 37, so maybe you guys are right. I should go back and do "Leading the Minor Democracies".... Monarchist Netherlands is just too frustrating to play due to the "Aloof Neutrality" spirit.... don't recommend it for anyone.

I took a quick look at democracy limits and saw the 80% limit and thought it was basically the same. But you guys are right, I forgot that you can Guarantee at 25% to get into a war!

 

[brantodb01]

Yes, but I was hoping to get both this and "Walking the Thin Line", which excludes "Cave to Germany", so no fascism. I also don't want to go Communist as it is simply too unrealistic for my stomach.



I do have a save from 37, so maybe you guys are right. I should go back and do "Leading the Minor Democracies".... Monarchist Netherlands is just too frustrating to play due to the "Aloof Neutrality" spirit.... don't recommend it for anyone.

I took a quick look at democracy limits and saw the 80% limit and thought it was basically the same. But you guys are right, I forgot that you can Guarantee at 25% to get into a war!

I think you're still gonna have to do the decisions to remove the neutrality spirit but I guess '37 gives you more time to do that

 

[Ivashanko]

Yes, but I was hoping to get both this and "Walking the Thin Line", which excludes "Cave to Germany", so no fascism. I also don't want to go Communist as it is simply too unrealistic for my stomach.

Germany went Oppose Hitler, so I was really happy: wow, neutral Germany, no invasion then!

...then the UK went fascist and had a civil war, Fascist UK joined Comintern. Poland attacked Latvia which was guaranteed by Monarchist Germany...

Pretty much the whole world except USA is at war

 

[kettyo]

Capitulations will make the tension skyrocket soon. Especially kodoha Japan tends to annex all of China, tension will be at 100%

 

[sekelsenmat]

Capitulations will make the tension skyrocket soon. Especially kodoha Japan tends to annex all of China, tension will be at 100%

Indeed, that was the key, thanks.

I started again from 37 and this time Italy attacked Yugoslavia which was defended by France, but Mosley had done the Brit-Italian Alliance of fascists, so the british brownshirts D-dayed France and conquered it completely. This caused world tension to skyrocket and when Qing China declared independence from Japan and joined the USA alliance (what?) a 3-way world war started between:

* Fascist UK, Italy, Hungary, Bulgaria, Communist China (what?)
* Non-Aligned Miedzymorze of Germany, Poland, Baltic countries, Romania, Czech, Kodoha Japan
* Canada, USA, Qing China (what?)

So I was able to join Miedzymorze as Monarchist Netherlands due to world tension 100%....

I seriously considered giving up because the UK had 70 dockyards and 1000 convoys! While I had like 1 BB, 1 modern CL, 15 Subs 40's with Snorkels + a bunch of old useless ships.

But the AI is so bad at naval designs that I actually .... won.

I did an endless number of stackswipes using the same unchanged 1940's CL design which I created in 1939 .... and my subs massacred the british convoys.

After a long time doing this, the UK apparently go into a depression? Their fuel sank to zero despite still having 300 convoys, and they called all their ships back to port, which wasn't that many, so I am having trouble finishing the Achievement! Those coward brits are hiding from my unsinkable BB.... (seriously, the naval AI is absurdly bad if this happened), and I didn't do meta-ships, just very realistic designs, with just a little more light attack then in reality, although I do have the raiding designer and 1940's hulls)... it seems that the speed + visibility decrease from doctrine+designer makes my ships immune to enemy hits... which is extremely unrealistic.

I did avoid the british doomstack of 8 BB, 4 CV, 80 DDs, and only fought far away so they wouldn't have time to reach the battle. I'm not sure what happened to the doomstack, maybe USA sunk it.

Anyway, since the seas got boring because I refused to declare on the USA despite insistent demands from all my allies to do it, I decided instead to D-day liberate France, marched south and destroyed Spain, with the help of a bizzilion Monarchist Germany troops, which was happy to go all-in into France and left the Romanian border undefended, which I had to defend with like 6 inf against 40 enemies... but I managed to hold in that big river in Romania. It took ages to defeat Bulgaria, Hungary and Italy due to supply problems due to the excessive monarchist german troop count, but we did it, and now the USSR suddenly declared on Turkey starting another world war.

Brazil and Argentina joined Miedzymorze and started sending troops across the atlantic against USSR even while tons of american troops are storming their country.... stupid AI.

Anyway, let's see, I feel I am extremely close to the double-achievement that I craved.

I just got "Pride and Extreme Prejudice" from sinking some unless remnant UK ship which happened to be pride of the fleet. No idea what happened to the original pride of the fleet, maybe the USA sank it? I doubt the AI would spontaneously change the pride of the fleet. Good that they change it if the original was sunk at least...

Some other misc best moments:

1> Sinking the Spanish Armada with 1 BB and a few CL:

UK has no fuel and no convoy lines to import any!?

UK Doomstack can't find my sub:

The sinking of Barham from real life now in hoi4:

 

[Caeric]

In general, speed a low surface visibility make ships very difficult to sink. I'd almost say to the point that in other than extreme cases Trade Interdiction is the best general purpose fleet doctrine.

I don't know how much pressure you had to prioritize the political foci over naval & industry but if you have the time then Netherlands can get 40 & 44 cruisers quite early as well as the huge bonus from the final naval doctrine toward naval production. Not quite as strong as fascist where you can get 6 dockyards from 1 focus but Netherlands still has the potential to become a powerful naval force with enough time.

 

[sekelsenmat]

In general, speed a low surface visibility make ships very difficult to sink. I'd almost say to the point that in other than extreme cases Trade Interdiction is the best general purpose fleet doctrine.

I don't know how much pressure you had to prioritize the political foci over naval & industry but if you have the time then Netherlands can get 40 & 44 cruisers quite early as well as the huge bonus from the final naval doctrine toward naval production. Not quite as strong as fascist where you can get 6 dockyards from 1 focus but Netherlands still has the potential to become a powerful naval force with enough time.

Zero pressure for political foci since you have to wait until 25% world tension if you go democratic, in my case I had to wait until 100%. Actually I on purpose delayed the decision, if I believed WT wouldn't progress to 100% I would have gone to democratic....

Yes, true that the Dutch has excellent naval foci, and I had very early 1940 BB, CL and Subs, but the Dutch industry is also crap and specially I was hard-pressed the whole game to find some source of Steel for my ships which isn't the Soviet Union.... so it is hard to convert the tech into numbers of ships built.

My point was that the AI didn't challenge me technologically from that point on. They didn't start building 1940's cruisers, CVs, Subs, etc, with designer. They just went all-in into cheap destroyers which while could prevent convoy deaths when in great numbers, were easy prey for my 1 BB + 3 CL force.

I basically had no pressure to upgrade my designs... like armor, guns, whatever.

Maybe I'll try to declare on the USA and see if their navy will defeat me. They should be able to, since I have zero ASW capabilities right now and I need to import all my oil from Indonesia & Curaçao and all my aluminium is in Surinami, on whose border they have 25 inf... which I can't counter with an equal number because I'm also defending Romania from the Soviets.

 

[el nora]

Fascist netherlands is the best naval minor. -20% DD, CL, and CA cost from spirits, and -10% to SS, BC, BB, and CV. Add that on top of +15% dockyard output. You can make quite the surface navy from only a few dockyards with that.

Chad Conrad is also the best sub admiral in the game, bar none. Give him silent hunter and concealment expert and let him command raiding fleet designed subs 3s and he's basically invisible. Pity he doesn't get his best stats unless you Go With Britain.

 

[him_15]

Just enjoy your peace.

 

[sekelsenmat]

Just enjoy your peace.

Neh...... I built level 5 forts in Suriname and declared on the USA. Maybe it was my 1k mines in the Venezuelan coast, but the USA is taking a good beating from the .... combined Brazilian-Argentinean navy. I switched my subs to raid from my Gibraltar to Mexico, let's see if I can prevent Brazil from capitulating. So far the mighty USA isn't doing much, while realistically they should be able to finish me. But they are already committed with troops helping Bangladesh Vs India (Fascist Alliance) and in Syria Vs Turkey (my alliance) and in Brazil, and in China .... so they might be too distracted.... but so far they aren't proving scary at all. I even put my 1 BB + 3 CL killer fleet on patrol to stackswipe American escorts. Who cares if they get sunk? My real task is building 1 carrier to figure out by trial and error in which port the only remaining British BB is hiding......

 

[Caeric]

Typically I just settle for trying to produce 2-4 Design 1047 Battlecruisers asap once I have 10-15 dockyards. (Just remember to replace the armor module with a BC I or II, still haven't fixed the template having BB I armor) They can manage vs most pre-war ships found in the RN or USN and just try to get as many good cruisers online as possible.

Importing steel is a bit of an issue yes hence why I prefer fascist Netherlands tbh. Just gobble up the Benelux and then help Germany take France. Get some collab spy missions going an seize as much French territory as possible and you have tons of steel

 

[Magnificent Genius]

Germany went Oppose Hitler,

What unholy ritual did you do to get this to happen? There is only one thing I want as much as a gf and a promotion to management, and that is to see the US go fascist and Germany restore the Kaiser(not in the same run, but that would be nice).

 

[sekelsenmat]

What unholy ritual did you do to get this to happen? There is only one thing I want as much as a gf and a promotion to management, and that is to see the US go fascist and Germany restore the Kaiser(not in the same run, but that would be nice).

I started a new game like 40 times because I wanted the UK to go fascist (so it won't ally USA) and not decolonise (because the game gets slow) and France to not go fascist.... Someone calculated the odds at 1 in 700 so yes, I got lucky.....

Now I already got "Threading the narrow path", but still no "Putting the raid on the Medway to shame". It is 46, the UK has zero fuel, rubber, convoys, 1 BC and 1 carrier remaining but I have no idea where. I invaded Ireland but the UK island has 250 divisions, it is impossible to invade... I already took all islands I could find with the UK colours, put NAVs and TACs on port strike everywhere I found reasonable (this way I accidentally sunk the whole Italian fleet), still no luck .... What to do? I am getting nukes ready maybe this will help? Or spies to decrease stability?

 

[eastcoastceojam]

Now I already got "Threading the narrow path", but still no "Putting the raid on the Medway to shame". It is 46, the UK has zero fuel, rubber, convoys, 1 BC and 1 carrier remaining but I have no idea where. I invaded Ireland but the UK island has 250 divisions, it is impossible to invade... I already took all islands I could find with the UK colours, put NAVs and TACs on port strike everywhere I found reasonable (this way I accidentally sunk the whole Italian fleet), still no luck .... What to do?

If you capitulate the UK, and there is no other major in their faction, you should get the achievement once the peace conference has finished. Just make sure you (or your faction) annexes the UK core territories instead of puppeting them. If there is no UK, there is no UK fleet, so the achievement will fire.

If the UK is in a faction with the USA, capitulating the UK likely won't get the achievement, since my experience is that there is always at least a few capital ships that flee to friendly ports in the USA. If that happens, then you would need to capitulate the USA as well to get the achievement.

 

[sekelsenmat]

If you capitulate the UK, and there is no other major in their faction, you should get the achievement once the peace conference has finished. Just make sure you (or your faction) annexes the UK core territories instead of puppeting them. If there is no UK, there is no UK fleet, so the achievement will fire.

If the UK is in a faction with the USA, capitulating the UK likely won't get the achievement, since my experience is that there is always at least a few capital ships that flee to friendly ports in the USA. If that happens, then you would need to capitulate the USA as well to get the achievement.

That's why I restarted until the UK went fascist. No USA alliance.

Anyway, thanks for all the help folks! Specially I didn't know that most WT is caused by capitulations...

So I finally did it. The last ships were hiding in the UK. No idea why previously I couldn't hit them. It seems like to hit ships in port you need to assign the mission to the land zone, I had assigned to the sea zone....

So here are the last ships from Herr Mosley's regime:

And achievement unlocked:

And an old screenshot of the German Military Junta deposing Hitler: