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Larry Reese

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WHOA, hold up a minute. I saw up the page that Proconsul says "assign escorts at 1 to 1 or more on the convoys...". I was under the impression that you can't change those types of assignments? At least I don't know how to do that - mine have always auto-populated (which annoyed me because I'd assign 3 to 1 or more if I could). Is there a set of controls I'm missing?

LR
 

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You must have misunderstood my previous posts.

You can assign several escorts to a route if you set convoys and maintenance of the routes to manual. Otherwise, if route maintenance is set to AI, it will remove the extra escorts, as you have seen.
 

Leadfingers

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Turn on the naval map mode to see where the convoys are being sunk>park (never, ever tell them to patrol) a bunch of up-to-date DDs in that sea zone (and some capitals too just in case Bismarck wants a fight)>wait>dead or severely damaged subs rinse and repeat until they stop being an issue (if you have enough DDs it won´t take long).

I've tried that, to no avail.

In fact, I feel that the the Sub Warfare aspect of the game is so broken, I just edit my save game file and give myself 9999 Convoys and Escorts.

Seriously. I've watched whole fleets of my DDs and CVs and whatnot sit on top of Sub Fleets with level 10 Radar right next door and just...nothing happens.
 

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Turn on the naval map mode to see where the convoys are being sunk>park (never, ever tell them to patrol) a bunch of up-to-date DDs in that sea zone (and some capitals too just in case Bismarck wants a fight)>wait>dead or severely damaged subs rinse and repeat until they stop being an issue (if you have enough DDs it won´t take long).

Can I ask why you should never use patrol? That's my most-used naval order right now.
 

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Very large fleets are exceptionally good at finding subs. I am at a complete loss as to why no one elses gives this advice. Perhaps its too gamey. *shrug* But it works very well.
 

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Very large fleets are exceptionally good at finding subs. I am at a complete loss as to why no one elses gives this advice. Perhaps its too gamey. *shrug* But it works very well.

I'm not sure they are. I get inconsistent results when I use large CTFs with lots of screens to find them. It kills subs dead instantly, but I sometimes find them quick and sometimes I don't.

This goes back to my question about how detection stats work. I get very inconsistent results when I do most things. The only things that consistently work are the following:

1) Increase ASW techs.
2) Put spotters in command
3) If the subs are in groups bigger than 2, they are easier to find.
4) If subs have hull values greater than 1, they are easier to find.
5) Aircraft kill subs dead thanks to naval strike and CAG mechanics.
6) More ships with ASW ratings looking for subs will result in finding them more often (more chances to detect), even if they aren't in the same fleet. But whether being in the same fleet helps or not is an open question.

I still have not figured out if detection ratings are totaled (total all detection in a sea zone and apply it once), work in tandem (every ship fires a detection attempt with its own rating), or whether something else is going on. And I cannot tell if we are detecting subs individually or as a group (do hull ratings stack? Or do you just get more detection attempts with more subs around?).

And I am fairly sure that convoy raiding efficiency only applies to "convoy too well protected" messages and not to detection. (It counters escort efficiency.) So I don't think any doctrine influences this stuff. (Spotting only detects surface ships) And I'm not sure if RADAR on aircraft helps at all despite tooltips. I'm not even sure aircraft ever need to detect a fleet; if ships are present in a sea zone, they get hit by the naval strike regardless. But CAGs don't seem to "launch" unless the screens pick up the subs first. CAG duty doesn't seem to commit the CAGs to actually doing anything until combat is initiated, so having fancy RADAR on CAGs may not be helping at all.

And capital ship RADAR doesn't detect submarines. And capital ships can't attack subs, except CAs which have a sub attack permanently set at 1. And...

What I'm getting at is that it's a big ol' mess that I don't fully understand. And sometimes I can't even formulate tests to determine what is going on. And since loading from a save game takes an oddly long time even on my desktop, running certain tests over an over again becomes and exercise in patience.
 

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I've tried that, to no avail.

In fact, I feel that the the Sub Warfare aspect of the game is so broken, I just edit my save game file and give myself 9999 Convoys and Escorts.

Seriously. I've watched whole fleets of my DDs and CVs and whatnot sit on top of Sub Fleets with level 10 Radar right next door and just...nothing happens.

Sitting on top means you used the move to option. Use patrol. I NEVER have issues with killing subs. It is very easy, in fact too easy, to win the sub war. Techs, DD's + CVL's and it's over. Send 2 groups of these ASW killers to each spotting or recorded convoy sinking. If you have them use the spotter admirals.
 

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I've tried that, to no avail.

In fact, I feel that the the Sub Warfare aspect of the game is so broken, I just edit my save game file and give myself 9999 Convoys and Escorts.

Seriously. I've watched whole fleets of my DDs and CVs and whatnot sit on top of Sub Fleets with level 10 Radar right next door and just...nothing happens.

Well it works for me like a charm; you can watch it in my Japanese LP the only one that I bothered to actually hunt down subs because I was an island literally at war with the whole world. After I bothered to hunt them down (IIRC with Japanese starting DDs backed up with older capital ships) the convoy losses stopped in a timely fashion.
 

BarrosRodrigues

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Can I ask why you should never use patrol? That's my most-used naval order right now.
One of the reasons is because it is less effective, you might miss the subs if you're patrolling while if you're idle you'll pretty much guaranteed to engage them if you're "hunting" with enough DDs.

Edit: if you're really unlucky you might even receive a report that your fleet was sunk off the coast of Japan because sometimes fleets on patrol ignore range trying to catch an enemy ship.

Very large fleets are exceptionally good at finding subs. I am at a complete loss as to why no one elses gives this advice. Perhaps its too gamey. *shrug* But it works very well.
Yes but you don´t actually need that many ships, a fleet of up-to-date ~25 DDs backed by older capitals (as protection for the DD) does the job just fine.
 
Last edited:

BarrosRodrigues

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Well I bothered to search for an episode where I was hunting subs:

[video=youtube;s7eWaApsR5s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7eWaApsR5s&index=16&list=PLrnKzgGibBMl4hSLP3ovK-dTK3vR3ngFw[/video]


at 4:52 a convoy was sunk, I sent the fleet to that seazone and at 6:03 3 US subs were spotted and 2 were sunk. In this episode I used most of the IJN firepower because it was not being needed elsewhere but I remember that later I used only very old DD/CL and very old capitals (mostly useless due to the low range) to "hunt" subs off the coast of Japan and their effectiveness was still very high.
 

Oerdin

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thanks for the reply. I am doing all of what you listed. I can see a sub, stick several navy fleets on it and nothing will happen.....

DDs are specialists in anti-sub warfare but they need to be advanced enough, you need to keep up in the anti-sub techs, and make sure you have radar up to date with radar posts made in all your port cities. Also aircraft can really increase both detection and sinkings so CVs and anti-ship aircraft. Best of luck.
 

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Sitting on top means you used the move to option. Use patrol. I NEVER have issues with killing subs. It is very easy, in fact too easy, to win the sub war. Techs, DD's + CVL's and it's over. Send 2 groups of these ASW killers to each spotting or recorded convoy sinking. If you have them use the spotter admirals.

Why CVLs instead of CVs?
 

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Why CVLs instead of CVs?

Cost and utility. CVs cost too much to waste on ASW duty, and CVs are too valuable in the battle line forming the cores of your CTFs. That said, if you have a CTF with nothing better to do at the moment, they do ASW work just fine.
 

jimbob89

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It's always a pain. You have to have a lot of spare convoys and escorts as it always takes time to kill off the sub threat.

Most efficient way I've found is to break you DD's into small squadrons, two-three units and flood an area. Watch the sub trying to evade and manually move to keep on top of it and surrounded. Even if you don't get the sub it will lose org and return to port. Then you can bomb it out of existence if you have the air-superiority to sit on the port with a naval bombing squadron. Carrier groups work well, but you have to be lucky to get the spot, be in the right region and engage. I rarely need to build more DD's unless the Axis high fleet gets loose from my pursuit and takes out a few DD groups whilst I wasn't looking. It's tiresome, but you only have to do for a year or two after the fall of France.

You can also afford to skim a few DD's and CL's out of your main battle fleets. Or, and equivalent to the Allies actual actions in the war, split some of you CTF's into smaller units and use them to help hunt subs. Italians and Germans rarely form a large battlefleet and come out to fight. Normally they best they do is two or three SHB's and a handful of escorts. You have more than enough naval power to keep a battlefleet in home waters, med and far-east and split the rest into sub-hunting parties.

In all a bit gamey, but if the Axis get's busy with subs, it's the most effective way.
 

Pacius Ferox

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Bah, the French did it for me in my game. They probably found them and I just happened to have my navy in the same slot. No convoy losses happening any longer.
 

Pro_Consul

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Bah, the French did it for me in my game. They probably found them and I just happened to have my navy in the same slot. No convoy losses happening any longer.

And if some of the losses were in the central and/or western parts of the Atlantic, then USA may have been helping even before they joined the war.